What can the Big East do to avoid more losses?
by B.D.Bronco on Feb 19, 2025 11:33 PM EST
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PrintThe Big East Conference dealt itself a big blow by allowing West Virginia University to break its contract by paying an exit "fine" and leave the Conference early. Though the fine was $20 million dollars it has created a precedent for the other schools to follow. Even if it becomes a Big12 bottom feeder, WVU will make back the $20 million back in no time from a much larger Big12 media contract.
The Big East does have one thing in its favor regarding future defections, however. The Big12 was desperate. It needed a tenth school for the 2012-13 season in order to avoid a breach of its media contract and was willing to put up $10 million of the $20 million exit "fine" for WVU, which will only pay back half and will be forgiven the other half. That means that WVU is paying $15 million out of pocket to break its contract and leave early. I doubt that the Big12, or any conference for that matter, will be willing to put up that kind of money again in the future.
That said, other schools may view that amount worth the cost in the long run. I doubt it, however, and 27 months is a long time for a to wait; though there are rumors that the Big East may allow Pitt and Syracuse to leave after the 2012-13 season when five of the six new schools join the conference. If the Big12 expands further it is expected that Louisville and Cincinnati may get an invite, as well as UConn and Rutgers from the ACC.
So what can the Big East do to avoid further defections? I say give those schools something to make the conference stronger and more competitive in both basketball and football. Sure those schools can make a crap load of money losing in the Big12 and ACC, but wouldn't they rather make good money AND win in the Big East? The Conference helped a little by adding Memphis, who has a strong basketball program but a crappy football program. It also needs more schools with strong basketball AND football programs. Temple, Tulsa, and So.Miss all fit that bill, but as we all know Villanova is blocking any Temple invite.
With regards to Villanova's objections on the matter, I say that the Big East needs to let the basketball only schools break away and take the Big East name with them. Most of the Big East's football members have the stronger basketball programs overall anyway. Losing Villanova, Providence, DePaul, etc will not hurt the Conference's basketball strength overall. Losing WVU did hurt football and basketball. Losing Pitt and Syracuse, however, only hurt basketball. Neither was very good at football. Boise State, SDSU, Houston, UCF, and SMU made the Conference stronger than it was before in football, even without WVU. UCF and Memphis help strengthen basketball. Adding Temple, Tulsa, and So.Miss will strengthen the conference in both football and basketball. Adding ECU and Air Force will also strengthen football.
It would be great if the Conference could get BYU and Notre Dame on board for football, but that's not likely ever to happen for various reasons.
What do you think the Big East needs to do?
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If it were up to me St, John's, Providence, and DePaul would have their bags packed and sent out the door.
I’d let ND, Nova, Georgetown, and Marquette stay.
12 football members + 4 basketball members is a nice solid 16 team basketball conference.
Go Bulls!
by Leavitt Town on Feb 20, 2025 6:18 AM EST reply actions
But the reality is that it's too late for it to have mattered. This needed to be done before Pitt and Cuse left.
At this point if the Big East looses anyone else (exception being Boise), they are easily replaceable without any real damage.
Go Bulls!
by Leavitt Town on Feb 20, 2025 6:20 AM EST up reply actions
Losing Louisville and Cinci will hurt FB and BB more than losing Pitt and Cuse did.IMHO.
I agree it can still go on without them but the SOS will be greatly damaged without Louisville and Cinci.
by B.D.Bronco on Feb 20, 2025 7:11 AM EST up reply actions
That's true in a logical sense, however perception is reality.
And the national perception would be (in terms of football) replacing Cincy and Louisville would be done easily.
Go Bulls!
by Leavitt Town on Feb 20, 2025 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think there's much the Big East can do
At least, not to prevent any all-sports or football-only school from leaving for the ACC, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac 12 (it’s not happening, but SDSU or Boise would accept an invite immediately), or SEC. There’s just too much of a revenue disparity. It’s unlikely anyone else would do what WVU is doing and leave at very short notice no matter what the exist fee was, but don’t be shocked if/when Louisville, UConn, Rutgers, and/or Cinci put forward a motion to knock the 27 months wait down to 15 (which is plenty of time to find a replacement) or that they won’t support further increases in exit fees.
The all-sports schools will not leave for a lower-tier conference, though it’s remotely possible the western football only schools might (with two schools east of the Mississippi and two in Texas making up the other four in a prospective western divisions, they’re going to be racking up frequent flyer miles — and with only two schools west of Texas, it’s unlikely the Big East will end up with ties to any western bowl games), and also possible that Navy will return to independence. Best thing the Big East could do to keep both Navy and the western schools would be to bring in Air Force the next time it has an opening — and a second true western football-only school if it has two openings.
And the driving factor in whether or not the non-football schools leave is going to be Louisville and/or UConn leaving (or further expansion with schools that are traditionally bad at basketball). What they want is to make sure the basketball conference is better than the A10; if they don’t think that’s the case, leaving to form an A10-like league is a better option.
by drothgery on Feb 20, 2025 10:22 AM EST reply actions
Big East can do
The Big East can do several things to keep schools:
1. Negotiate a contract that reduces disparity
2. Enforce the 27 month rule at all times
3. Raise the exit fee
4. Create a Big East network
5. Promote the programs
The products should improve. Most of the new schools are located in good recruiting areas and they recruit well. They bring strong programs. Their basketball has been poor but is improving. They also expand media markets to a great degree.
There have been negative comments about Memphis football. But, Memphis recruiting is not poor and they do not have to stay down. They are definitely trying by firing a coach after only two years.
Schools like Tulsa, Southern Mississippi, and East Carolina would be poor additions. Except for ECU, their stadiums are small and they do not have means of expanding them. Their media markets are non-existent.
by since1670 on Feb 20, 2025 11:16 AM EST reply actions
it can really only do 4 and 5
1 is impossible because they just don’t have a product that is worth what the other major conferences do to TV networks (and realignment has made this worse for the Big East, not better)
2 is impossible because the 27-month wait is completely impractical, and no one will ever be held to it; the only reason it hasn’t been reduced yet is that the Big East doesn’t want to look hypocritical, but after SU & Pitt leave, if no one else is officially on their way out at the time, I expect the maximum wait to get knocked back to 15 months and a buyout for the end of the current academic year defined.
3 is impossible because half of the all-sports schools have serious ambitions of moving on and don’t want to pay a huge exit fee ($10M is already ridiculous, given the BE’s actual revenues).
by drothgery on Feb 20, 2025 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
NO PROPRIETARY NETWORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
All they do is reduce media exposure and cause in-fighting in the conference. Take it from someone who follows a team that is currently part of the MWC.
by Jesterrace on Feb 20, 2025 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Temple
Add Temple regardless of any objections.
by since1670 on Feb 20, 2025 11:32 AM EST reply actions
How bad would it hurt
To lose Villanova in other sports? That would have to be a consideration if they brought Temple back on board.
by Jesterrace on Feb 20, 2025 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
The biggest thing the Big East Could Do
Is pass a sharing of primary and secondary tier television rights that would leave the TV rights for the schools in the hands of the conference, even if the school were to attempt to leave the league. This is what the Big 12 just agreed to for six years (remember the Longhorn Network is a 3rd tier network so it’s not covered). With Louisville actively trying to leave, I doubt this could pass, but once they move (assuming it happens) it could be a good move for all involved to lock everyone in.
by Mengus22 on Feb 20, 2025 11:39 AM EST reply actions
the Big 12 agreed to that...
… because Oklahoma and Texas don’t actually want to leave, they just like posturing. Whereas Louisville, Cinci, UConn, and Rutgers all want to leave, and the non-football schools want to leave if Louisville and/or Uconn leave.
by drothgery on Feb 20, 2025 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Once Syracuse, Pitt and WV are gone
The football schools really aren’t that much better than the basketball schools. Louisville, Cincy and UConn (and UConn’s program is about to hit complete chaos) vs. Marquette, ND and Georgetown, the latter is better. The rest are average or downright bad.
There really isn’t anything to keep schools like UConn, Rutgers, Louisville or Cincy in the Big East. It’s either a chaotic league with no stability that or the basketball schools break away and the conference is made up of a bunch of schools with no relationship to each other. You think UConn is ok with a conference with Rutgers, USF, Memphis, Louisville and SMU?
by cuse2012 on Feb 20, 2025 12:20 PM EST reply actions
*First paragraph was in regards to basketball. Second to last sentence I meant to take the word ‘that’ out.
by cuse2012 on Feb 20, 2025 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Big East can do-2
One can quibble over the possibilities. But "can’t "is rather strong.
Most confusing is to say the Big East can not close the disparity gap with other conferences.
Consider the probable teams in the Big East in 2013. The conference would have had three teams in the Top 25, which is the same as the ACC. Those two teams were higher ranked than any ACC team. Boise State is regularly ranked in the Top 25. Houston has been in it or close to it for sevral years. Central Florida ended in 2010 season in the Top 25 after beating Georgia.
Boise, Central Florida, Houston, and SMU all recruit very well. If that is doubted check the score of the 2012 BBVA bowl. Boise State, Houston, and SMU beat AQ teams in bowl games. Currently, several Big East teams might recruit better, but not by much. If they do the difference will disappear by 2013 season.
Central FLorida, Houston, and San Diego State are large schools in large cities. They have many fans and alumni.
The Big East media markets will be far larger than any other conference.
Why conclude the Big East cannot close the money gap with the ACC?
by since1670 on Feb 20, 2025 3:12 PM EST reply actions
Agreed
The difference between the Big East and the ACC is all perception based. When you look at actual facts, the Big East actually out performs the ACC in several categories (especially BCS Bowl wins).
by Jesterrace on Feb 20, 2025 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
all but one of the Big East's BCS bowl wins were by WVU or Miami
neither of which will be in the new Big East (Louisville has the win; Miami, Syracuse, Virginia Tech, Pitt, Cinci, and UConn have all lost as the Big East’s BCS rep). Boise brings in a couple of BCS wins, but both were in years when the actual Big East champion was ranked higher than they were going into the bowls (and 2006 Louisville’s case, stayed there after).
The important factor to the networks, though, is that the expected 2013 ACC far outperforms the expected 2013 Big East in TV ratings.
by drothgery on Feb 20, 2025 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
This
The only team remaining in the Big East with a BCS bowl win is Louisville over Wake Forest, and don’t expect them to have long left in the Big East before the Big 12 comes knocking for them. It’s only a matter of time, and short of Pitino going crazy and holding hostages at gunpoint in the Yum Center,, they will gladly go.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 21, 2025 6:36 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
Does anyone really think UConn, UL, Cincy and Rutgers won’t jump ship at the very first chance they get, be it from the Big 12, Big Ten or ACC? Their fans and administrations have been jockeying for position to get out ASAP for a few months now.
If you lose at least two of those the conference is dead. Maybe you’ll have one or two football team capable of putting together a nice season, but when it’s a team in Boise, ID duking it out against a team in Orlando or a conference title, nobody is going to care.
And there is zero chance the Big East keeps the tournament at MSG. You really think the Dolans are begging to see Providence/SMU on Broadway? They’re going to want Syracuse/Duke/UNC/Pitt/Maryland/Maybe UConn.
by cuse2012 on Feb 21, 2025 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
The problem is that
other than Louisville there aren’t any schools that are directly desired. Cincy maybe but UConn isn’t wanted unless it’s as a package deal with a big name (ie Notre Dame). Rutgers doesn’t have anyone actively pursuing them either (unless maybe as the same as UConn as a package deal with a big name). Let’s face it Notre Dame isn’t giving up indy status until scheduling becomes impossible for them. Boise State has 2 BCS wins (the same as the entire ACC Conference). So there is some silver lining in all this.
by Jesterrace on Feb 27, 2025 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
I want to ask the UL, Cinci, UConn, and Rutgers ADs a question.
Are you guys so desperate to make ridiculous media cash that you are willing to be the ACC and Big12 doormats? Why not make decent money AND compete and win in the Big East?
by B.D.Bronco on Feb 27, 2025 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
that's why no one will move from the ACC to the Big 12
(or vis versa, unless the ACC somehow loses its academic snobbery and invites WVU - who would join any conference that had Pitt and Syracuse after about five minutes of consideration, and one that also had VT and Maryland would take less than that). But the money gap is always going be large from the old non-AQs to the Big East, from the Big East to ACC/Big 12, and significant from ACC/Big 12 to Pac 12/Big Ten/SEC.
by drothgery on Feb 27, 2025 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Big East Can Do-3
Compare Big East ranking before and after changes.
https://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2012/2/19/2810951/what-can-the-big-east-do-to-avoid-more-losses
by since1670 on Feb 20, 2025 11:24 PM EST reply actions
Big East can do-4
Sorry about the link. This is the one meant:
http://houston.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=194&tid=169236472&mid=169236472&sid=933&style=2
by since1670 on Feb 20, 2025 11:25 PM EST reply actions
I don't think there is really any argument...
…that big east football improved with the realignment. The Big XII likely improved or stayed the same and the ACC probably got a bit lower. It’s hoops where this realignment hits the Big East hard.
by redmen9194 on Feb 21, 2025 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
The rumor is...
…that if either UConn or Louisville leave, the seven hoops only schools (G’Town, Quette, Johnnies, Nova, Providence, Seton Hall and DePaul) are gone. Basketball is their bread and butter and they can’t afford a league that gets watered down any further. The 2003 loss was a football loss, not a basketball loss. The latest defections are a basketball hit, not a football hit except for WV. Those seven can add Xaiver and another school or two for a nine or ten team league in major markets and that should be good to go. If the A-10 can headline its conference tourny in Brooklyn, MSG will have no problem with a conference tourny with the new hoops conference. And the conference should let Cuse and Pitt out after next season. Why make them wait when football will have jsut about all its members and hoops is getting all its replacements. By the start of 2013 all will be in except for Navy. No reason to hold Cuse and Pitt any longer than that.
by redmen9194 on Feb 21, 2025 11:33 AM EST reply actions
If basketball is DePaul''s bread and butter
It’s an even worse school than I thought.
And that basketball conference would maybe be attractive to the Prudential Center, but certainly not MSG.
by cuse2012 on Feb 21, 2025 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Sure it would...
…the only attractive teams in the ACC for the garden is Duke and Cuse, not enough to bring interest in a southern league north. And the ACC is never bringing the tourny to NYC anyway, the southern schools said just as much when it was suggested. Hey, DePaul ain’t great but who knows, maybe they improve and become competitive. It’s better than being stuck with SMU, UCF and Houston.
by redmen9194 on Feb 21, 2025 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
UNC? Pitt? Maryland? Potentially UConn?
All of those schools would be bigger draws than anyone in that basketball conference. Besides Marquette, the rest of those teams are embarrassments at bringing fans to their home arenas, only Marquette and G’Town have good programs, and now you expect them to go to New York? And what Swofford said about moving to the Garden is:
""I don’t think there’s any question that taking a look at New York and Madison Square Garden would be very appealing for Atlantic Coast Conference basketball fans — and even moreso now with even more teams in closer proximity," Swofford said. "With that being the media center of the world, so to speak, we’d probably be remiss if we didn’t think of it in those terms."
Even the Carolina mafia wouldn’t be able to turn it down. If they want it, it’s theirs, and they’re going to want it. The ACC isn’t really a “southern conference” anymore, either. Hell, it’s more of a Northeast conference than the Big East is now. If further expansion happens it will be at least one more tristate school and possibly Notre Dame. No chance a group of small catholic schools with average to mediocre programs (sans one or two) is on Broadway in prime time over a pack of the best programs in the country.
by cuse2012 on Feb 21, 2025 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Msg and big east extending tourney contract...
…for another ten years. That takes it through 2026. I guess the acc was not a draw for msg, even with the new alignments.
by redmen9194 on Mar 9, 2025 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
Avoiding more defections.
Commissioner Marinatto should present the 8 Non-Football Catholic Schools with an ultimatum of reviving,upgrading their football programs and in the case of Villanova and Notre Dame participating in Big East Football. If these schools are not committed to the Big East fully they should be voted out. There are several conferences that these schools would fit perfectly in:
Mid Atlantic Athletic Conference - St. John’s, Seton Hall
America East Conference- Providence
Colonial Athletic Association - Georgetown, Villanova
Horizon League - Marquette, DePaul and Notre Dame
by BigEast4Life on Feb 24, 2025 8:34 PM EST reply actions
Wrong and wrong.
The Catholic schools are not going to seperate. They will form a seperate league before they do that.
Do you really want Georgetown and Villanova football in the Big East dilluting an already struggling product?
Notre Dame should have joined the Big East a long time ago. But they haven’t now and they never will. The Big East wants them more than they need the Big East. The Big 10, the Big 12 and the ACC would all kill to have ND. Hell, the Pac 12 would probably take them.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 25, 2025 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
Also don't forget
the Big East is headquartered in Providence. Basketball will always, always come first.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 25, 2025 8:34 AM EST up reply actions
You need 75 percent vote to kick anyone out.
The football only schools don’t have a vote to expell a basketball member. There are not enough votes to vote the hoops schools out. Never gonna happen. It’s their league.
by redmen9194 on Feb 25, 2025 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
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