The Way the Divisions Should be set up for 2013
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PrintI know this probably a dead horse in this blog, but I thought I'd tip my hand on how I feel the New Big East divisions should look. First, since this is a nationwide conference I feel something along the lines of Stars and Stripes are appropriate (As long as its not anything like Leaders and Legends, right?). Here is what I feel they should be, and I'll comment on why (Cross Division rival in parenthesis) :
STARS:
Boise State (San Diego State)
Connecticut (Cincinnati)
Navy* (we'll find out in 2015, but Midshipmen vs. Falcons or Pirates does sound tempting)
Rutgers (Louisville)
South Florida (Central Florida)
Southern Methodist (Houston)
Temple (Memphis)
STRIPES:
Central Florida (South Florida)
Cincinnati (Connecticut)
Houston (Southern Methodist)
Louisville (Rutgers)
Memphis (Temple)
San Diego State (Boise State)
*Navy doesn't start Big East play until 2015.
- All teams can now recruit both Florida and Texas easier than if it was east-west.
- All Rivalries are maintained (few examples below), and so are the potential for new ones.
- Cinci, Houston, U of L, and Memphis have a long track record of playing each other.
- Navy has played Rutgers 23 times, and SMU 16 (They also have a trophy).
- Rutgers has played Temple 34 times.
- Avoids any Temple, Memphis, Louisville, etc. to the Western Division talk.
- Makes things OK if the conference wishes to add another east coast team to be the cross division rival to Navy.
- UCF has played Memphis for almost 8 years straight.... why stop now?
- Boise State and San Diego State have not really played any of the New Big East so finding a division for them can be interchangeable, but i like this configuration.
So Big East fans new and old.... What do you think?
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Comments
Thoughtful proposal
There are several considerations here that support the division alignment, and it would make adding teams less dependent on geography. Thanks for the post.
by 29sonski on Apr 14, 2025 4:14 PM EDT reply actions
No Problem
It’s the least I can do to help solve the chaos that is Big East football scheduling.
by Vanndy on Apr 14, 2025 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I dig it.
East/West is cumbersome for my beloved BEast, and UCF to the West division is just plain garbage. So I like a Leaders/Legends setup that has better names. And more patriotic. Also, I think UNLV slides right in to this setup. USF vs. UNLV conference championship in Yankee Stadium, 2013!! Crowd will be epic…
Go Bulls!
by mpetty99 on Apr 15, 2025 1:01 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
The Problem Is
Boise State only agreed to be in the Big East if there was a geographically western division to minimize its travel needs. So as long as Boise is in the Big East, it will be in a division with San Diego State, Houston, SMU, etc.
by Mengus22 on Apr 15, 2025 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Boise State can't fly out to the east coast for 3 games?
Boise will have 4 home conference games, a game where they go to either Texas or South California, and at worst 3 eastern games. With the added money the BE is going to give them, they shouldn’t have any problems flying to the east coast for 3 games and having to schedule 2 west coast non-conference away games to help with additional travel costs. Under a east-west alignment they would still have to fly to play a east coast game at least twice a season anyway. But, you’re right. This alignment is too logical that it will never happen!
by Vanndy on Apr 15, 2025 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You make a good point but...
…with an east-west divisional separation BSU would have to make 1 or 2 trips back east at most. 4 OOC games. 5 to 7 divisional games (7 if they expand to 16; 5 if they stay at 12; and 6 if they go to 14.) And three games against the eastern division. Likely only 1 or 2 of those would be road games each season.
by B.D.Bronco on Apr 17, 2025 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I like your division names
I can’t see any possibility where they don’t split it East and West though. The “old” Big East schools currently located in the Eastern timezone will not want to lose the convenience that they currently have, and I’m sure this was addressed before any of the new schools were added. The problem is that there’s not really a true West division yet, only an East and a not-East division. I like the idea of splitting the teams a different way, but scheduling and tv times will be much harder when both divisions have teams in almost every timezone.
Depending on how the divisions are broken up I hope Louisville’s cross-division rival is either Cincy (existing rivalry), Memphis (previous rival), Boise (Met twice in bowls, 1-1), or Rutgers (dashed our NC hopes in 06, with another potentially big game at the end of this season). UConn-Louisville just doesn’t do much for me
by Cards86 on Apr 15, 2025 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
Fixed
Thanks for your input! I think the TV and scheduling times shouldn’t be as hard as one would imagine given that they can have weeknight games and games lasting all day Saturday.
by Vanndy on Apr 15, 2025 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's not pull a Big Ten with convoluted divisional alignments.
Okay, somebody in the Big East has made this necessary. "BC" in my nickname references the icon. I AM NOT A BOSTON COLLEGE FAN.
by VoiceOfBC on Apr 19, 2025 7:44 PM EDT reply actions
The fact that
there will be an odd number of teams starting in 2015 - that being 13 - to be basically says that the conference is conceding the fact that Louisville or someone else will be gone by that time. Common, why else would they accept an odd number? What do you guys think?
by PittGuy on Apr 20, 2025 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
I think the BE wants 14 teams for the forseeable future, which I think will be a very solid model
If I were running the conference I’d be convincing AF to join in 2015 with Navy. If Louisville leaves then I think Fresno gets the next spot, which will start to form a true Western division.
The ideal number will be 16, but the expansion game is a delicate process. Every conference wants to expand and make sure they get the best teams possible. So imo the BE would be wise to get to 14 with a western division to stabilize the conference, then work on raising their perceived value, and reevaluate expansion candidates in 3-5 years.
by Cards86 on Apr 20, 2025 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Word on the street is that the Louisville, BigXII talk is cooling off and the conference may seriously be considering raiding the ACC.
Rumors are that Florida State, Clemson, Miami, and GaTech have been talking with the BigXII
by B.D.Bronco on Apr 20, 2025 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That is the first
that I have heard of the Big 12 wanting to raid the ACC. I can’t imagine any ACC teams leaving for the Big 12. If the SEC came calling, they would leave in a heart-beat - sure - but I can’t see the Big 12, but what do I know. Nothing would surprise me at this moment.
Do you have a link for that B.D.Bronco? I follow college football talk a-lot, and I haven’t seen any of it.
by PittGuy on Apr 23, 2025 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't believe....
Everything you read on Bleacher Report!
by Vanndy on Apr 24, 2025 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
BigXII ACC raid
Nope,
UT & OU like the size it is now. Unless they want to change and they have all the votes. With UT having more votes than OU.
by the electricAlan on Apr 22, 2025 7:06 PM EDT reply actions
BTW, I hope the BigXII doesn't raid the ACC. It would definitely spell the death of the Big East, just as it's getting back on its feet.
At this point in time, the only additional school the Big East is in danger of realistically losing is Louisville. UConn and Rutgers want out, but no one wants them. But if the ACC lost schools to the SEC and/or the BigXII, they would have to reload, and the place to get schools would be the Big East.
Also, any ACC school would leave in a heartbeat for the BigXII. Do you have any idea how much more money each BigXII school gets over the ACC? In addition to a ten-fold SOS increase.
by B.D.Bronco on Apr 26, 2025 4:53 PM EDT reply actions
If I am correct
It would be about a 5 million dollar difference a year between the two conferences, but that is the last I heard. The Big 12 I think is getting 20 mill a year and the ACC 15 per year per team. Again, I don’t know the actual numbers.
If I am correct and it is just 5 million, I don’t think that is enough of a difference to switch conferences given the extra travel cost and geographical isolation. I just don’t see any ACC school doing it. 5 million is chump change in college sports today. Now, if it gets up to around 7 or 8 million, absolutely I could see them leaving. But not at just 5 million.
by PittGuy on Apr 27, 2025 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Besides, the NC and VA schools are the ACC
They’ll never leave. The northern schools would consider the B1G under some circumstances, and the southern ones the SEC, but no one would think the only-stable-when-compared-to-the-Big-East Big 12 is worth it.
by drothgery on Apr 27, 2025 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Right now, the Big 12 is much less stable than the ACC. Everyone knows that Oklahoma does not want to be in the same conference with Texas (and neither do any of the other schools for that matter) and would bolt for either the SEC or the PAC 12 if they could. Heck, this almost did happen last year.
I do think the Big 12 will be stable for many years to come and don’t see any more teams leaving. However, 10 years down the road, I see the two Texas and Oklahoma schools bolting for the Pac 12.
by PittGuy on Apr 27, 2025 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Big 12 is more stable than most do, really
Mostly because I think their actual actions have shown that Texas and Oklahoma want to stay in the Big 12 (especially since the Pac clearly wants no part of Oklahoma State or Texas Tech), which means the other Texas schools and Oklahoma State aren’t going anywhere either.
I mean, the other schools would bolt for the B1G or SEC in an eyeblink (and if WVU could convince the ACC not to be snobbish about academics and take them, they’d go ACC as soon as they could afford the Big 12’s buyout). But they aren’t all that interested.
by drothgery on Apr 27, 2025 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya
And to be honest, I take back what I said. There is no way in hell Texas would ever join the Pac 12 in all honesty. The travel for them would be ridiculous. And well, without Texas, Okalahoma could never go to the Pac 12 as well, because the Pac 12 would want Texas with the deal, so the Big 12 is actually a rather stable conference.
However, it goes without saying that Oklahoma and just about every other Big 12 school except Baylor and Texas Tech hate being in the same conference with Texas. However, it’s a catch 22, because those schools also know that Texas is what keeps the conference always relevant and stable since they won’t go anywhere. So in that sense, they also love Texas. It’s a love-hate relationship with the Longhorns.
by PittGuy on Apr 27, 2025 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
If nobody wants to be in the same conference as Texas
why don’t they leave en masse and form a new conference? They could easily replace Texas: Louisville or Cincy would jump in a heartbeat.
"I am willing to donate to the charity that is working on the prevention of whatever the hell Dick Vitale has." - noobmaster
by rickmbari on Apr 30, 2025 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Because they can't
Texas is what holds the conference together and there would be no replacing Texas. Texas has a sort-of egotistical attitude, and this is why Texas A&M actively wanted to get out of the Big 12 and away from Texas. Trust me, if any other Big 12 school got an invite to either the Big 10, Pac 12 or the SEC, they would leave in a heart-beat.
Not that the ACC is incredibly stable either - although a little bit more stable than the Big 12. It’s well known that if any member of the ACC got an invite to the SEC or Big 10, they would leave in a heart-beat. In short, you have three stable conferences right now - the SEC, Big 10 and Pac 12 - and then everyone else who would love to be a member of one of those three conferences.
Remember, it’s not just about money, it’s even more about stable money. The big question is who is going to do the next expansion move? I have a feeling that you will see expansion round #3 in less than two years. My prediction: Louisville and BYU to the Big 12.
by PittGuy on Apr 30, 2025 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
And I don't think that's true either
VA, VT, UNC, Duke, Wake, and NC State aren’t ever going anywhere. SU, Pitt, BC, and Maryland might be interested in the B1G, but would want no part of the SEC. The reverse is true of GT, Clemson, FSU, and Miami.
And I really think Oklahoma does want to be in a conference with Texas, or at least doesn’t want to be in the SEC.
Also, I think WVU to the Big 12 makes BYU really unlikely; by taking the ’eers, they pretty much decided future expansion would be to the east, not to the west (Provo is farther from most Big 12 schools than Morgantown).
by drothgery on May 1, 2025 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Well ya
When I said any team would like to go to either one of those three conferences, I wasn’t referring to guys with small football programs like Duke and Wake. My comment was more in general. You r right: certain teams would not leave the ACC for the SEC or Big 10.
However, outside of Duke or Wake, I think any ACC team would go in a heart-beat to the SEC or Big 10. Not that they ever will get that invite, because I don’t see the Big 10 or SEC making any expansion move in the next 10 years at-least. I do see the Big 12 going back to 12 though, but I could be wrong. And I’m certain one of those teams will be Louisville, but not so certain on the next one.
And OU really does not like being in the same conference with Texas, trust me. Those two schools do not like each other at all, and OU hates it how Texas makes it seem like they are bigger than everyone else with the Longhorn Network and what-not. Just ask anyone from Oklahaoma. This is why A&M left - specifically to get out of the conference with Texas.
by PittGuy on May 1, 2025 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
What makes the ACC more stable is geography and politics
The major candidates to leave are GT, Miami, FSU and Clemson, and they’re all going against the Florida/Georgia/South Carolina/Kentucky agreement not to add those teams and Louisville. As good of a fit as I think NC State would be in the SEC, the North Carolina schools aren’t going anywhere, period. The state of Virginia has already jumped into realignment to make sure one of their schools doesn’t end up in a risky situation when they got VT out of the Big East, I don’t think they’d let them leave if it meant UVA was left in a similar situation. And Va Tech seems to prefer being a major player in the ACC than to have to go up against the Floridas, Alabamas and LSUs. No way the SEC goes as far north as Maryland.
The ACC is really only vulnerable if the Big Ten targets Maryland or Syracuse. Possibly Pitt, but they already have that market, and a slimmer chance of BC (I don’t think they make the jump to New England). And I don’t think we’re all that attractive to them, either, as a relatively small private school whose expertise is in areas that don’t bring in massive federal research dollars (communications, public affairs, etc.). That really leaves Maryland, who would be a good fit for them, IMO. Or if the Virginia schools managed to simultaneously work out VT to the SEC and UVA to the Big Ten, but, again, I think VT prefers to be the top dog in a lower conference, and UVA seems to really bind themselves to the North Carolina schools.
The Big 12 doesn’t have a lot of these assurances, and they have to deal with all three of the top tier conferences (Pac, Big Ten, SEC) instead of just two. Besides Iowa State for the Big Ten, all of their teams represent new markets to all of those leagues.
And I really do think Notre Dame will wind up in the ACC if they have to join a conference. I haven’t seen a single Notre Dame fan who wants to be in the Big Ten . They abhor the idea of being just another Midwest school. Their pride is in being a very metropolitan, nationwide brand. They’d go to the Big 12 before the Big Ten. The ACC would put them in the Boston, New York, Washington/Baltimore, Atlanta and Miami markets regularly in addition to them always playing out of conference in Los Angeles. They’ll always have Chicago. The Big 12 puts them in Texas, half of Kansas City and a bunch of podunk college towns in sparsely populated Great Plains states. Not to mention their rivalries with BC, Pitt, Miami, Georgia Tech and UNC. This is something a team like Florida State or Clemson has to notice. Throw them in the mix and the ACC is making more money than the Big 12.
by cuse2012 on May 1, 2025 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I like your analysis
overall of the ACC teams and you are generally correct. If VT got an invite tomorrow though for the SEC, I think they would end up bolting eventually (even if Virginia was not included), but would definitely take some time thinking about it for reasons you mentioned. There would be too much pressure among the fan-base to make the move to the SEC and fan-bases in general want big time football games. The SEC is such a dominant football conference compared to everyone else.
As far as Florida, South Carolina, and Georgia being against the addition of GT, Florida, Miami or Clemson into the SEC, that would be an interesting dilemma. I generally agree with you that those SEC schools wouldn’t want another team from their same geographical area, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Teams which have huge fan bases such as Florida St. and Clemson would add a-lot of value to the SEC. Since G Tech and Miami have smaller fan bases, I think they would have a significantly less chance of getting an SEC invite.
I also agree with you about the Big 10 and the Big 12. Actually, the team the Big 10 would like the most I think is Rutgers, because they would add the most television sets to their Big 10 network. BC, Cuse and Maryland are also possibilities in that order. Pitt - as you mentioned - has no prayer of ever getting a Big 10 invite, because the Big 10 already have a presence in Western PA. In any case, I don’t see the SEC or Big 10 expanding any-time soon - at-least for the next 10 years - so the ACC is safe for a good while. And the Big 12 sure as heck has no chance of ever grabbing an ACC team.
I do consider Louisville as good as gone to the Big 12 in the next year, but it remains to be seen whether the Big 12 would also pick up a 12th team and who that would be (Air Force and BYU are both out). There really aren’t any great candidates for that 12th Big 12 team, unless Houston or SMU get really good all of a sudden. My guess would be Boise St. actually. However, many people are predicting the end of Boise St.’s magical run. Kellen Moore is gone.
by PittGuy on May 1, 2025 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And I agree
with you about Notre Dame going to the ACC instead of the Big10 if they ever HAD to join a conference. Actually, Dan Wetzel wrote an article just about that which hashed out many of the points you made.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_notre_dame_should_jump_to_acc_091911
However, I see no chance of Notre Dame ever giving up their independence - at-least not in our lifetime. Their fan base likes being independent too much. They will always have a Big East to park their Olympic sports in.
by PittGuy on May 1, 2025 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
ACC teams are not leaving for the Big 12
The money difference is not that large, and there is no stability to guarantee that money will even be there. Teams are looking for safe money as much as they are more money. The Big 12 really isn’t safe money compared to the ACC. With the large ACC exit fee, it would take half of a decade to make any money off of the move, at which point Texas and/or Oklahoma could very well be gone and the value of the conference with them. Meanwhile, you know the ACC is very aggressive and is the most likely landing spot for Notre Dame and the cash they bring in if they have to join a conference. Way too much risk with very little reward.
If it did happen, you’re correct the Big East would be toast. Two of UConn, Rutgers and Louisville would end up in the ACC, someone like ECU and Air Force would be picked up in reaction. Then all of a sudden Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette and the like are playing against SMU, Houston, UCF, USF, Air Force, ECU, etc. There’d be no incentive for them to not split into their own conference with Butler, Xavier, etc.. The Big East could live on in name only, though it’s been living on in name only for a while now anyway.
by cuse2012 on Apr 28, 2025 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
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