Report: Temple In Talks To Join The Big East In All Sports As Early As 2012
by Mengus22 on Feb 22, 2012 1:02 PM EST
in Big East Expansion
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PrintStill looking for an additional team to replace West Virginia for the 2012-2013 season, the Big East is reportedly in talks with Temple to become a full sports member. According to a report from Pete Thamel in the New York Times, the Big East and Temple are working to move Temple's football from the Mid-America Conference (MAC) and its remaining sports from the Atlantic 10 to the Big East. Thamel reports:
The Big East is in discussions to add Temple for all sports as early as the next school year, according to someone briefed on the talks. Temple belongs to the Mid-American Conference and the Atlantic 10 in various sports and there are legal issues that have to be dealt with before the Owls would be able to leave. A resolution is expected this month.
Within the next month, Temple will also have to inform the new conference formed by the merger of the Mountain West and Conference USA of its intentions. Temple has been asked to join that league.
Thamel notes that the addition of Temple would bring the Big East to a total of 13 football schools and 18 basketball schools for the future. The MAC has previously played football and hosted a championship game with 13 teams. Adding Temple now would allow the Big East to play with 12 schools once Pittsburgh and Syracuse leave even though Navy will not be joining the league as a football playing member until 2015. It would also provide a needed boost to the basketball side of the conference and it doesn't hurt that Temple is located in one of the largest television markets in America.
Stay tuned to the Big East Expansion section for additional news on this developing story.
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I was just going to say
Villanova has got to be having a fit right now. The question is if worse came to worse and Villanova left and Temple came in, would it be an improvement? I hope it goes through though.
Duh! Of course Temple would an improvement over Nova.
Temple FB is light year ahead of Nova’s (which sucks at the FCS level), their BB is twice as good.
it wasn't too long ago that 'Nova was playing for the FCS championship
and this year notwithstanding, ’Nova is usually much better than Temple in basketball.
Hopefully Air Force makes 14
And Fresno State or UNLV once Louisville leaves
by AztecsKillingHim on Feb 22, 2012 2:52 PM EST reply actions
And Colorado State once SDSU joins the Pac-14
by lemonverbena on Feb 22, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well that goes without saying, doesn’t it?
by AztecsKillingHim on Feb 22, 2012 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
and Hawaii and the Sorbonne...
Orange you glad it's not football season?
by SUMB44 on Feb 22, 2012 4:44 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Running joke
SDSU has for decades wanted into the Pac, desperately so. We realize this is impossible, but whoever thought we would be in the Big East! So who knows! Thx Boise State ♥
by lemonverbena on Feb 22, 2012 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Here is how it might work.
Temple comes in 2012 so long as Nova can come in with Navy in 2015. Nova might not block it. Also, including Nova and Temple would bring football to 14 in 2015, and B-Ball to 18 in 2013. Besides if Nova is not being looked at for football they still might not be able to block Temple since so many of the B-Ball schools want another b-ball power.
by Vinnie Giordano on Feb 22, 2012 4:16 PM EST reply actions
I figure Temple would be paired with Memphis,
The pair entail a nice compromise with the Big East factions. Memphis pleases the basketball-only members, and Temple largely helps football, although Temple is in the same market as Villanova, its football is more acceptable for expansion, and its basketball may even be better than Villanova’s. In case the basketball-only members might consider joining Villanova in blocking Temple, Memphis was a great way to appease them-especially as the football members sacrificed in adding a school with a reputation of struggling in football.
Both also provide great television markets and recruiting areas.
by Green Bull on Feb 22, 2012 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nova won't block it
if they get in for football. If they don’t get in, probably no clout to block it anyway.
Adding Temple is the first move that Marinara has made that makes any sense.
Orange you glad it's not football season?
by SUMB44 on Feb 22, 2012 4:45 PM EST via Android app reply actions
In exchange
Providence gets Groupon for 1/2 off cheesesteaks every time they’re in Philly.
Cardiac Hill contributor
by oaklandzoo12 on Feb 22, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps...
…with all the talk that Lousiville is going to bolt to the Big XII, the hoops only schools are betting on a split and Nova won’t be in a conference with Temple for all that long.
I doubt that
Why would the hoops schools split, without the football, they’ll go from 3-million dollar tv payouts to that of a million like other lesser conferences. Just doesn’t make any sense.
I like sports, movies, and music!
by jmacgregorny on Feb 22, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
The hoops only schools get no football money.
They only share in the hoops money, not the football money. They would leave because a conference of ten teams that are only playing basketball in markets such as NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago, etc. would likley get them the same or slightly more revenue. Ac conference of nine or ten that included Xaiver would get about four to five bids to the NCAA a year which is what the ACC is currently getting. They have good programs in th etop markets in the nation – markets that really don’t care about college football. Their overall contract wold be less than the Big Eats gets now for hoops, but they would split that total with half the number of schools than they would currently. The hoops overall would be better than what is being offered. Again, the rumor is that the Catholics told the Big East that if either of Louisville or UConn leaves, they are invoking the split clause of the bylaws and leaving. That makes a lot fo sense for them to do.
The Big East would be worse without Louisville or UConn,
But I think the basketball members still benefit playing full members, and getting exposure in Ohio, New Jersey, Florida, Texas-probably a growing state for basketball, Memphis, and Kentucky or Connecticut. It also doesn’t hurt to have a relationship with significant BCS AQ programs.
by Green Bull on Feb 23, 2012 2:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If the schools split...
…and the hoops only side adds xavier and maybe st. louis, they would have teams in NYC, Philly, DC, Chicago, Cincy, St. Louis, Milwaulkee, as well as in New England (Providence) and Jersey (Seton Hall). They could get Dayton to move to ten as well. If Louisville or UConn bolt, there is really no reason for the league not to split. It would be beyond repair for basketball.
Do you honestly think Providence is enough to excite the New England about the Big East?
UConn probably entails much more interest. Sharing a basketball conference with UConn and/or Louisville is not really negligible. Memphis is also a significant basketball market, while Florida and Texas offer growing audiences for big-time basketball.
With the consumerist nature of today’s sports fanbases, large public universities-with FBS football teams-in large markets generally have more potential than small private schools. You don’t seem to realize how you take them for granted, in exposing your school to a larger audience and distinguishing its conference faction from any other small basketball schools.
It may be easier to reach the top in basketball, but-with a few exceptions-it is still difficult for a small private school to sustain top-tier success and exposure without help. Not every private school can be Notre Dame and Syracuse, and even they have to schedule for exposure.
by Green Bull on Feb 23, 2012 5:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correction, disregard “the” before New England.
Also. I just realized another factor keeping the factions together!
It’s Notre Dame, which the basketball schools certainly like to play in conference games and associate with. But, Notre Dame needs an AQ
conference for bowl tie-ins. So, if the basketball-only schools split from the football conference, they risk losing their relationship with Notre Dame.
by Green Bull on Feb 23, 2012 5:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think they care about ND at this point...
…and it’s all about the coach in hoops. If you have a good coach, you will be successful. If youbtake the cheap road, you won’t. St. John’s is a prime example during the norm Roberts years. Xaiver, Marquette, nova, G’town all have had sustained success. STJ is on the rise. The hoops schools will be fine. But if they are substituting Houston, SMU, and UCF for Cuse, Pitt, and WV, they are better off on their own. Remember, they voted for expansion to prevent Cuse, Pitt and WV from leaving. Now that they are gone, why is it better to stay?
I think they care about keeping Notre Dame
One could reasonably argue DePaul and Marquette were added largely for Notre Dame and getting it exposure to Catholics in Chicago and Wisconsin.
Yes, having a coach is part of it, but without the top-tier coaches-which are fairly rare-it also helps to have the factors I mentioned. An individual coach is not the sole factor.
Syracuse is a big loss, but the long-term basketball value of West Virginia and potentially even Pitt is over-rated-especially as markets. I think one should actually prefer being on tv for basketball in Orlando, Houston, and Dallas than Morgantown and even Pittsburgh.
Don’t worry, not all is lost for the glorious St. Johns and its basketball faction. You still have exposure to great-if not better-tv markets, and two of the traitors might be starting to decline in basketball. All three departing members are in the Rust Belt generally with declining markets.
by Green Bull on Feb 23, 2012 9:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Except the college basketball product is by far better in Morgantown and Pittsburgh than in Houston, Orlando, and Dallas
Cardiac Hill contributor
by oaklandzoo12 on Feb 23, 2012 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
I am not worried about St. John's at all.
My point is that the hoops side had given the OK to expansion in order to try to keep Cuse, Pitt and BC in the league. Now they are gone. There is no reason for St. John’s, Nova, etc., to try to keep the whole thing together if Louisville or UConn leave next because they would now be in a conference with a big drop in hoops when they could go off on their own with a pretty good league of ten and chart their own course. The Catholic group with a few additions would comprise a stronger conference in basketball then the football side. Would it be the best hoops league out there? No. Would it be one of the top leagues, sure. It could get half its membership in the tourny consistantly every year. DePaul and Marquette were added for an 8 – 8 balance so that if the league split in half in 2010, they would have two sustainable leagues that qualified as NCAA conferences getting automatic bids from the outset. Had nothing to do with ND. ND was brought in for balance as well. And even if all three of the teams leaving were to go into a slump for various reasons, it would not be permanent as these things are cyclical (again see St. John’s, Georgetown, Nova, etc., ) and they still would be stronger hoops programs than a lot of what is coming in.
The non-BCS basketball schools may be better yesterday and today, but there is no guarantee they will always be better.
For the future, I suspect they might offer large audiences-probably more than the schools you want to ditch us for. We actually provide exposure and national relevance.
The BCS schools are not doing all that badly. The bottom three Big East teams in standings are actually Providence, DePaul, and Villanova. Only two more are below St. Johns, and Seton Hall is clearly “middle of the pack.” Of the seven, only two-Marquette and Georgetown-are really dominating the “inferior” full members. Nobody else has room to talk down to us, but so much for the football schools being unworthy of the seven basketball school.
I can’t go back in the comment to edit, so I will add here: Notre Dame is a big player for men’s and women’s basketball, and other sports-especially as a private Catholic school. You have not convinced me that the seven would not mind leaving Notre Dame.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 11:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am not talking down to anyone.
The Catholics get no football money. They have no say in football affairs. The members they were originally alligned with that play football are all gone except for UConn. The BCS schools are not doing badly at all, especially USF which is having a really nice season. All I am saying is it does not make sense for the Catholics to stick at this point, or at least if UConn and / or Ville go. Whether ND stays with us or goes elsewhere will play no role in that.
I disagree,
I think playing Notre Dame and nationally recognized teams increases exposure and athletic prestige for small private schools adapting to the consumerist nature of today’s sports. If that effect in basketball doesn’t matter, then why not just stay regional instead of adding ignored BB schools out west (I.e. St. Louis)?
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Just adding schools with similar backrounds...
…Catholic, no football, major cities.
For now,
But it doesn’t have to last forever. I think at least UCF is on the rise in basketball. And now that they and the other two can sell a Big East product to recruits, things could change. Even College Basketball powers rise and fall sometime.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 11:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
But the New Big East doesn't have any significant BCS AQ programs
Except maybe Boise State.
I didn't say elite, just significant.
They entail some importance, in large markets with growing football teams and fanbases. Cincinnati did very well for a couple years before losing their football head coach. And Louisville is apparently coveted by the Big 12. But who knows, maybe wins against teams like Auburn, Clemson, FSU, Miami, and Notre Dame in the last 5 years don’t really mean anything?
by Green Bull on Feb 23, 2012 5:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Louisville football will do okay in the B12, but the Cards to the B12 is a basketball-driven move
There are a small number of schools that make big time football level money on basketball (talking an average AQ conference team here, not Texas or Ohio State). Louisville is one of them (Syracuse is as well).
Sure they do.
They are major cities and when the teams are good the arenas are filled. Just like every other major city with pro teams. And what is a significant BCS AQ program? For football, the loss of West Virginia is significant to the Big East. But losing Syracuse and Pitt does no damage to football from a market and performance standpoint. ACC football actually gets worse in football with expansion and Big East football gets better. Boise, Houston and UCF easily replace WV, Pitt and Cuse in football. Hoops is what got better in the ACC and worse in the Big East from these moves. That is what the expansion was about – killing Big East basketball was the goal. That’s why FSU was in the news right after saying that any further expansion has to help ACC football. But it really doesn’t matter anyway. Syracuse will be where they have wanted to go for a long time, Pitt wanted the Big Ten but will take the ACC, and West Virginia, well, they wanted the ACC and SEC but were rejected. So they will take the Big XII. All good.
LOL
Those arenas are only full when someone like Syracuse, UConn or Duke are there. Otherwise they aren’t even close.
You obviously haven't been to any of those arenas when your team is not there.
It has everything to do with how well they are playing. But you guys aren’t going to be playing in any of those arenas anymore anyway so no sweat for you anyway.
Georgetown's last home game
Had, what, 10,000 there in a 20,000 seat arena on a weekend when they’re a top 10 team? Nova typically draws the same. St. John’s routinely has about 3,000 of their own fans at MSG. DePaul, Providence….we won’t even go there.
Wrong about STJ
STJ puts more than 3,000 at the garden even when we are bad and not playing a good opposing team on a weeknight. So you are just wrong there. But say whatever you want, it really doesn’t mater for Cuse anymore because you guys are gone anyway. You should worry less about the Garden and more about how many georgia Tech and Wake are seating these days at home.
Not at all
You’ve barely had more than 10,000 twice, and a bunch of 5,000 or so. Plus a game against Syracuse where there was at least a 3-1 orange to red ratio. Maybe 3,000 was an exaggeration, but you fill half the garden at best. The same is true of Georgetown and Villanova, even when they’re top 10 teams. Arenas that are not even half full when the home team is a top 10 team is embarrassing.
I’m not “worrying” about the Garden, just pointing out that if you’re going to say “those cities don’t care about college football”, you should be consistent. None of those teams draw any kind of significant crowd, and except for Marquette and Villanova until Temple joins, they’re all at best second or third on the totem pole in their cities to other schools in the area that have football teams.
Why do you keep bringing up what SU is doing? That isn’t the topic.
I know overrating St. John’s and the bball schools is your schtick, but come on man.
Love you cuse, but you should read what I wrote.
I never said those cities don’t care about college football -never even brought it up. Also, not talking about what Syracuse is doing at all. I mentioned that the Catholics should split since Cuse, Pitt, and potentially UConn or Louisville are going and there is no point sticking. You brought up the rest and started down the no interest in the catholic schools. That’s your schtick. Don’t worry, Cuse is gone. We are moving on as are you. you’ll be fine, we’ll be fine, we will all be fine. When we have a weekend game we fill more than half the Garden. When we are good, we fill more than half the Garden. You are Garden obsessed. Just relax about it and focus on the Greesboro Colliseum and how many fans fill that place up.
You never brought it up?
Really? Check again.
markets that really don’t care about college football
But it really doesn’t matter anyway. Syracuse will be where they have wanted to go for a long time
But you guys aren’t going to be playing in any of those arenas anymore anyway so no sweat for you anyway.
But say whatever you want, it really doesn’t mater for Cuse anymore because you guys are gone anyway
Why am I “Garden obsessed”? I said none of those teams draw well, and none of them do. Then you got all butthurt over that.
Talk about obsession, you bring up Syracuse in every post on a topic that has nothing to do with them. Relax, bro. They are completely losing you, they’ll be playing the ACC tourney there in a few years.
Ha ha.
Yeah, Cuse will be playing A LOT at the Garden. your fan base is already annoyed that they move their good football games off campus. what games will they play? ACC Tourny? Read the press coming out of Carolina champ. You’re in a southern league now. And again you should read what I wrote. Markets that don’t care about college football refered to the cities where the hoops schools are. The others were in response to other posts by you. Facts don’t really matter anyway. Later…
The ACC isn't all that southern after we join
Half the teams are from north of NC, and most of Florida isn’t culturally southern either.
My theory...
The problem everyone had with Nova (aside from being a FCS upgrade) was that they had no stadium, and the only acceptable one in Philly was Lincoln Field which was reserved by Temple.
Temple wanted to join the BE but Nova has been blocking them but has stated that if everything was equal (both in FBS), they may not have as big of a problem with them joining (with both bball teams in the BE).
So the solution could be that Nova and the Big East approves Temple to join in all sports if Temple agrees to share Lincoln Field with Nova so they can upgrade. Sharing the field may have been difficult with one in the BE and the other in the MAC but is becomes easy to do if they are both playing in the same conference which makes 2/3rd of their schedules…
Temple home Nova away
Nova home Temple away
The only thing that would have to be worked out would be the OOC schedule which could be solved with a Thursday night spotlight game or two…
No options
Likely the Big East just forced it through for the betterment of the conference with or without Villanova’s approval. What are they going to do, leave by themselves for significantly less money in a much less conference? The Big East tried all other options for 2012 to protect Villanova and this is what works and the schools supported it.
I like sports, movies, and music!
by jmacgregorny on Feb 22, 2012 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
That is really not an option.
Remember the primary tenant is the Eagles and the field would be a disaster if games were being played there every single Saturday.
The Eagles own the stadium outright. And frankly, they only took on Temple as a tenant largely because the city forced it on them in exchange for public funding of the stadium.
So I would agree that its unlikely that they’d be interested in having Villanova play there as well.
The word around town has been that if Villanova wanted to move to the big East, they would play in PPL Park, home of the Philadelphia Union. That has about 18,500 seats, but could be expanded. That is if there is even enough people who care to see a Villanova football game…
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One of the things to remember is that Villanova and Temple are not rich universities. Nova’s endowment is only $370m. Temple’s is only $280m. For them to come up with the funds to build a modern stadium (see link below to a recent stadium built to modern standards in semi-rural Texas. In the Philly area, that stadium would easily cost $100m).
Does anyone seriously think Temple/Nova could or should raise that kind of money for a football stadium?
University of North Texas’ new FB Stadium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apogee_Stadium
LL your theory makes too much sense to work...
Eagles own the stadium. Temple has a lease for 5 more years, so they are better positioned in the short term, but only the short term. It all could be worked out. But won’t.
Star-Ledger reports that Temple very close to joining
Tom Luicci of the Star-Ledger reports that the Owls are very close to joining the Big East for 2012.
In the article, CBS Sports is cited as claiming the “deal to add Temple is done.” Looks like 12 teams (14 if Cuse and Pitt have to stay) for 2013 and a Big East Championship game.
Temple
Temple would be an excellent asset to the Big East. Small basketball only schools with no resources not so much.
I could see that as well
Air Force probably won’t stay too many seasons in the new conference.
Joining the new MW/CUSA is a no brainer for the AFA. If the BE succeeds, it can join in a couple of years with Navy. If it collapses, they are in the right conference for them given their options.
BTW – I am honestly surprised they haven’t been asked to join the Pac 12. They would have been a natural companion to Colorado, have outstanding academics, and a national following.
The Big 12
asked Air Force to join but Air Force declined because they couldn’t compete for recruits. Honestly, IMHO Air Force could go to just about any BCS Conference if they really wanted to but the Air Force isn’t motivated like the other schools (not sending recruits off to the NFL, needing tons of $ coming in to keep the program running). The military schools are only motivated by 2 things: Scheduling and ability to put up a decent game with their recruits. Beyond that they don’t care. Air Force felt that they could have a decent shot about being competitive with the Big East (hence their early interest) but a bunch of fans/alum complaining about the geography and teams leaving gave them cold feet. They might however change their mind given Navy joining.
Many fans in the new "Western Division"
are starting to be a little dismayed. Evidently when the BE promised western partners for the division it was refering to schools west of the Allegheny Mountains. I was one who was thinking west of the Rockies and at least west of the Mississippi. This new 12-team expansion league was supposed to be concerned about football, not BB so much. Memphis (2-10), with an average 2011 attendance of 20,078 football fans for home games and whose TV market is #49 nationally over, say, a true western team like the UNLV Rebels, with the #40 TV market in the nation, a great away-game destination for all, and one of the better BB programs in the nation? And can Temple football deliver the Philly market and East Coast better than Fresno State can deliver northern California and the entire west coast? Temple and Memphis were added for BB, and not football.
I am still looking forward to being in the Big East, but not so much now. It is looking like no one is going to join that isn’t approved by Coach Rick Pitino.
Teamwork is what the Green Bay Packers were all about. They didn't do it for individual glory. They did it because they loved one another.---Vince Lombardi
Commissioner Pitino
rules with an iron fist.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 24, 2012 8:40 AM EST up reply actions
Congrats
You’ve just realized that the Big East is a basketball first conference.
Cardiac Hill contributor
by oaklandzoo12 on Feb 24, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
This.
Which doesn’t bode well for the football only members in the long run.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 24, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
At the very least
Memphis and Temple should have been added for basketball only and UNLV, Fresno State or even Hawaii as football only members. The BE fans better hope BCS indeed goes away, because the BCS numbers and TV contracts points might have just gotten a lot weaker.
Teamwork is what the Green Bay Packers were all about. They didn't do it for individual glory. They did it because they loved one another.---Vince Lombardi
by bluesyourdaddy on Feb 24, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions
To be honest
I have a feeling there won’t be AQ bids anyway starting 2014. This means that teams like Boise St. and SDS will be in conferences that are geographically miles a-part and their sole purpose for joining the BE will then be moot.
They also joined for exposure and television contract money.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 11:46 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Once the AQ goes away
television contracts and the like will very likely be renegotiated. Without a major bowl on the line, many of these games lose a lot fo clout.
The Big East isn’t likely to secure many big time bowl games because they lack any kind of historical power or histroically dedicated fan base. Boise State could be the exception to this. So who is going to care what South Florida and San Diego State are playing for a spot in the Beef ‘O’ Brady’s Bowl or Pinstripe Bowl?
Whereas conferences with teams like Texas, Oklahoma, Florida State, Miami, etc. are going to have an easier time securing higher tiered bowls. The Fiesta or the Cotton bowl is still going to want the Big 12. Why? Because that gives them the likelihood of hosting Texas or Oklahoma. The Rose Bowl will want the Pac-12 because they’re going to want the opportunity to host Oregon, USC, etc. The Orange bowl will likely want the ACC because they’ll want the chance to host Florida State or Miami, Clemson, or Virginia Tech. The Sugar Bowl will want the SEC because New Orleans is right in SEC territory and of course they’d want LSU, ‘Bama, Florida, etc. What major bowl is going to want the Big East? I’m not talking about the Champs Sports Bowl. We know what bowls are a reward and which ones are consolation prizes. Just saying… I’m not saying the Big East can’t do it, but I don’t see it happening. I mentioned the Cotton Bowl because many see it as the next best thing to a BCS bowl, and there had been talking about elevating it’s status.
In my opinion, Boise State probably has the most dedicated fan base in the Big East right now. Louisville as well, especially with CS at the helm (but I don’t give Louisville long before they’re in the Big XII.) Will South Florida really sell out a big time bowl? UConn? Memphis? Temple? These are not the teams Bowl Execs piss their pants over hosting. (I’m not going to pretend West Virginia is anywhere near the level of many of these schools I mentioned either when it comes to desirability. But we do travel well, nonetheless.)
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 24, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I get it, you look down on the Big East football.
You see them as being unworthy of West Virginia, although at least USF has been very competitive against you and contributed more to the ratings in games between the two than you probably give them credit for.
West Virginia may have more tradition and success than the Big East football members. But, in that regard, the Lions and Browns used to be ahead of the Cowboys and 49ers! Things change, and chances are they will again.
Anyways, you disregarded by point. I didn’t claim the Big East was considered awesome or the best. The conference just has to be their best available option.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 12:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correction
Disregarded my point.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
That's not what I was saying at all.
As a matter of fact I loved Big East football at one point, especially when West Virginia, Louisville, Rutgers, and USF were all ranked and competing with each other.
I’m not talking about the Big East that was, I’m talking about the Big East that is. Even then the Big East didn’t have a fantastic bowl line up, but BCS bowls were required to pick one us. Without AQ, they won’t be.
I also don’t mean disrespect to our former conference mates. I think UConn and Rutgers will find conference homes outside the Big East, as will Louisville and perhaps Cincy. I really HOPE USF does because the program has the most potential of any Big East team with it’s location and recruiting grounds. That being said, I don’t buy into the marketibility of the New Big East. I could be very wrong. Hell, I hope I am. I don’t wish for any program to fail because that doesn’t benefit anyone.
I didn’t claim that you thought anythign was awesome or even good. I was arguing the television contracts and exposure that I think could change significantly with the rest of the landscape, I just did so in a very long winded manner.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 24, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
The way to fix all of this
will be to get a playoff going in college football. Even a modest 4 team playoff (which seems like it will occur) would be a major improvement to college football.
In the world of a playoff, more teams will have the opportunity to make the championship game, and this is a much more fair way to judge a conference rather than how big the TV exposure is for a given conference which is what this stupid BCS system does. Right now, only the top 2 make the championship game, and it’s just so hard to make it into the top 2.
But going back to the Big East, I wouldn’t make any rash assumptions about the future make-up of the conference. I would first let it play out. Remember, after Miami, VT and BC left for the ACC, everyone said the Big East would be dead, but in fact, the Big East actually performed fairly well and even better than the ACC. I don’t think you can make any judgement about how good the Big East will be until the end of 2015 – just let it play out. I could see schools like Houston and Central Florida becoming real powerhouses in college football given their recruiting location. Again, don’t make any rash assumptions. Not that I’m saying you are doing this MA – talking to others really. I have found MA’s comments to always be very respectful and sensible on these boards.
Another good point
MA made the point that seems to get missed by many college football fans. In order for the sport of college football to thrive, we need fans from the lesser known schools to tune into the sport like UCF, Memphis, Fresno St., Your-momma St. as much as fans from major powerhouses like OSU, Texas and Oklahoma. Many of these teams exist in HUGE TV markets (like Orlando and Houston) and college football needs these markets to come into play to increase the TV ratings for the entire sport. As MA said, it’s not good for the sport of college football when lesser known teams and conferences getting trashed and fans should be sensitive to this. This just dis-enfranchises them which is what the BCS does.
Speaking of which, again, it all comes back to a playoff. If you incorporate a playoff into college football with the 16 team Dan Wetzel model, you would increase the TV ratings of the sport tremendously and also the cash flow. In short, the amount from a playoff would be almost 8 times more than the BCS. I understand this is a whole new topic and beast for another thread, but I think it’s an important one. It really does all tie in.
I don't think your three suggestions are any better than Temple, which is in one of the largest American cities.
Hawaii should be an absolute no, as it is thousands of miles from even the coast-thereby overstretching the league without adding anything to the league. Without the novelty or being exotic, Hawaii’s support to join a BCS AQ conference would probably be lower.
by Green Bull on Feb 24, 2012 11:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You might think again.
Hawaii is no further away from Boise State or San Diego in a Western Division than Boise State is to the East Coast or the Florida schools. In the WAC they have played schools in Texas and Louisiana on a yearly basis and starting next year will be playing Alliance teams as far away as Georgia, Alabama, and North Carolina. But in the Big East, Western Division they would only play 2-3 East Divsion teams a year. They would also bring a bowl tie-in, the 71st largest media market, BCS numbers, great facilities, and a huge, nationwide fan base, and great away game destination. They could join for football only as early as this year as they are leaving the WAC for a new home in the MWC. As for the BCS AQ numbers you mention, Hawaii was in the 2007 Sugar Bowl. Temple? Didn’t you kick them out once? And Memphis? They finished ranked 116th of all 120 FBS teams.
Just saying.
Teamwork is what the Green Bay Packers were all about. They didn't do it for individual glory. They did it because they loved one another.---Vince Lombardi
by bluesyourdaddy on Feb 25, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Hawaii is still a poor choice.
The novelty notwithstanding, its football competitiveness and largely Continental US and foreign tourist filled population influencing the 71st media do not constitute a must have member. They do not compensate for travel to Hawaii-which is actually very expensive.
Regarding the argument that they will play schools from Alabama, Georgia, and North Carolina, just because they are crazy enough to do it, it doesn’t make it a great idea for us to copy them and take Hawaii.
Memphis and Temple provide larger markets and richer recruiting areas than Hawaii. And there is a reason why Boise State and San Diego State chose a conference with USF, UCF, and other east coast schools, instead of just waiting for Hawaii.
by Green Bull on Feb 25, 2012 1:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Add Western Teams for Balance and Fairness
Adding Temple is an excellent move because of what they contribute. However, Fresno would be just as good an addition as Memphis.
Adding more Western teams is certainly desirable for BSU and SDSU. It will be a better conference if all members thinks it is fair, not just those on the East coast. The Big East is moving to a new world. It calls for everyone to adjust.
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