Big 12 Now Likely To Delay Release Of 2012 Football Schedule
by Mengus22 on Jan 31, 2012 3:48 PM EST
in The Big East Falls Apart
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PrintDespite interim commissioner Chuck Neinas insisting in multiple interviews the past few weeks that the Big 12 would release its 2012 football schedule by the contractually obligated February 1, 2012 due date, the conference will reportedly delay the release of that schedule for at least a week. According to Dennis Dodd of CBS Sports, the conference is publicly insisting that the schedule will be released, but a source inside the conference office indicated to him that it might not be the case:
The Big 12 will "likely" delay the release of its 2012 schedule until next week, a source told CBSSports.com Tuesday afternoon. However, the league reiterated it is holding to a Wednesday deadline to release the schedule.
Why is this significant? It could indicate a number of things. It could indicate that the Big East and West Virginia, which are engaged in court ordered non-binding mediation are close to a settlement and the release of the schedule is being delayed either to avoid interfering with that or that some schedule of games with Big 12 schools could possibly be a part of a settlement between the two conferences and West Virginia. It could also indicate that the Big East has made it known that a schedule from the Big 12 with West Virginia on it would be enough to go ahead and amend its lawsuit in Rhode Island to include the Big 12 for tortuous interference. It's all speculation at this point.
In the end, West Virginia will almost certainly play in the Big 12 in 2012. Still, it is noteworthy that the schedule could be delayed after so much public insistence that it would not be.
For more coverage West Virginia's attempt to leave the Big East early, stay tuned to our Big East Falls Apart section.
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I still don't get...
…how the hoops only schools are putting up with this. They need to split now. Send out invites to Xavier and Dayton. Maybe Butler. go to a nine or ten team league. Otherwise we are going to be stuck with basketball lightweights for the sake of football. The football schools that matter to the hoops side are leaving. If not now then i nthe next few years. This is insane.
It's not time yet, I think
If/when Louisville or UConn leaves, the non-football schools will split off within weeks (without both of them, the all-sports schools left after SU, Pitt, and WVU leave are a net drag on Big East basketball). Of course, any of Louisville, Cinci, UConn, and Rutgers that are left at that point will try and find a way to still play basketball in the Big East (USF, SMU, UCF, and Houston — and anyone else the Big East could plausibly bring in for all sports except maybe Memphis — don’t really care about this).
Louisville
will be out within the next couple of years. UConn’s hope hangs on whether or not the ACC want to expand beyond 14.
They were the first to 14, I don’t think they’ll be the first to 16. It seems as if they jumped to stave off any poaching of their own teams.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 1, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
There may be a domino effect
- Louisville + Cinci (or just maybe Rutgers) to the Big 12 probably splits the Big East, but…
- ND quite possibly won’t stay in the Catholic Basketball League, so they go ACC, which means UConn does
- The need to replace Louisville, Cinci, and UConn sends ECU and Southern Miss and Memphis to CUSA+ (i.e. Big East all-sports + football-only schools)
- And the need to replace ND and desire for at least nine schools sends Xavier and Dayton to the Big East (i.e. the Catholic Basketball League)
And 14 is kind of awkward. I think the SEC is kind of stuck there unless they want to take Big East (or recently Big East) schools, because I’m more convinced than most about Texas and Oklahoma’s desire to stay in the SWC Big 12, and that means no one the SEC wants will leave the Big 12 for the SEC except maybe WVU, while raiding the ACC is impractical.
in the long run
WVU probably would bail for the SEC if only for geographies sake, but that’s only my take on it, and I don’t see the SEC coming after us. I think if they decide to go to 16, they’ll push again, and much harder, for Virginia Tech and maybe Florida State.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 3, 2012 6:46 AM EST up reply actions
Your snobbery notwithstanding,
The remaining all-sports members have proven they can compete with basketball-only members. Even USF has surprised teams like Providence, Villanova, Seton Hall, and St. John’s.
Both factions benefit from each other, connecting the large markets of the Northeast, Midwest, and Florida. Do you really want your school cut off from a recruit-rich state like Florida?
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
for basketball
Florida is not a big deal. According to the rosters at ESPN.com, the men’s basketball teams at the 8 non-football schools have a total of three guys from Florida … and the seven all-sports schools other than USF have another three. Cinci and USF are the only schools that have more than one basketball player from Florida (Cinci has two, USF has four).
I understand Florida is not strong for basketball recruits as it is for football,
There seems to be more parity for states in basketball. But Florida is still a fairly significant state for recruiting in basketball. AP 12th (and 11th Coaches Poll) ranked and potential contender for the NCCA title UF-apparently has 5 players with a FL connection-on a roster of 12. While I will admit it is not quite vital, it helps in recruiting. Florida also provides very significant media markets in one of the few most populous states.
With the ACC moving north and even claiming Madison Square Garden, you are not in a position to concede the whole coastline south of Georgetown. Cutting your nose to spite your face will only quicken the pace of your decline to irrelevance.
By the way, your proposal would also cut you off from Rutgers-your last nationally “first tier” grasp on the New York City area. In this age of consumerism, being or associating with a “first-tier (school with FBS if not BCS/AQ football team)” is now more vital than it used to be. It entails a brand name and fanbase for sponsors and television sponsors.
We are not expendable, and the basketball only schools-excepting Notre Dame-need us more than the original commenter thinks.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 8:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I understand Florida is not as strong for basketball recruits as it is for football….
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 8:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correction
It entails a brand name and fanbase for sponsors and television partners.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 8:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
When I typed "your" and "you,"
It was in reference to Redmen9194. Sorry for the typo, drothgery.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 8:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I knew that, actually
He’s a St. John’s fan advocating the non-football schools leaving (which I agree they should if Louisville or UConn leaves). I’m a Syracuse fan; the Orange are joining the ACC, so we will still have a presence in Florida, and this will matter some for football (though we will get no one FSU or Miami wants) and not at all for other sports.
I disagree on a split
The hybrid is more beneficial for the Big East to both parties, even if less emotionally convenient. I agree basketball-only members should be prestigious, but they should also retain a connection to the current all-sports members because of their markets. For the long-term, even the Texas schools shouldn’t be too bad, because they offer a respectable number of recruits and televisions.
With two more departures, I can see the Big East probably compromising on Temple and Memphis.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 8:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If there are any more departures, it's a divorce.
The hybrid worked for the basketball schools because, at first, it meant keeping BC, Syracuse and Pitt in the league. After the ACC raided the Big EAst and the Big East raided C-USA, it meant keeping UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, Cincinatti and West Virginia in the league. Rutgers and USF were pretty much dead weight, but so were Seton Hall and Providence.
Now, of the football schools, there are 2 national powers, 1 decent program and 5 dead-weight schools.
I’ll be very surprised if the hybrid league survives. The ESPN negotiations might kill it—I don’t think there will be enough money to keep the football and basketball sides happy.
If there is a raid, I don’t see there being any agreement on who to take in. The collapse of the football league, after rejecting Villanova, isn’t going to make Villanova any more willing to bring Temple in. I don’t think the football schools really want Memphis when ECU is available.
A split could happen, but I think both factions actually benefit with the hybrid.
Of course, I can’t read their minds so I have no idea of the basketball school’s personal bias. But if there is a split, I very highly doubt it would be initiated by the few remaining football members.
I don’t think Rutgers is deadweight anymore, and if it keeps it up, USF might finally be getting rid of “dead weight” status too. Rutgers provides them with exposure and an argument for retaining its reign at the Madison Square Gardens; and USF brings some interest in Florida (even if not much, still better than nothing in one of the few most populous states).
Splitting from the football members would make them into another A-10 in prestige, and be the final nail in their coffin as a major and relevant conference. It would be a great advantage for the ACC and Big 12.
The only justification I can see for a split is reactionary emotion.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 10:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree that USF
should be on the rise. The talent is there and I think Skip Holtz is a good coach.
With that being said, I’ll believe it when I see them make it through conference play wthout getting smacked around.
The proper pieces of the puzzle are there, though.
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 2, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I agree!
Very well stated. USF has the potential to be a major brand name; I just has to utilize it. Unfortunately its revenue stream is not remotely close to the (FL) Big 3, as it started football much later and has to play catch up at a time when elite conferences seem to be trying to eliminate the Big East (although the ACC deserves to be cut off in football at least as much as we do). USF is also at risk of losing its Lakeland campus to UF, because of political bias in the Florida legislature.
USF will probably have to be adaptable and innovative, even outside of football to find its full potential.
I know USF may not be an elite money magnet for a conference right now, but that is probably due to perception and comparisons to the Big 3. It also cannot afford to invest enough in its football program. But an elite conference-level television contract could help change that. The more you can invest in potential (properly), the greater the returns.
By the way, I am going to miss what was our growing rivalry.
by Green Bull on Feb 2, 2012 4:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Correction
It just has to utilize it (potential).
by Green Bull on Feb 2, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well
USF and its’ fans just have to realize it’s never going to be the University of Florida, Florida State, or even Miami. They’re never going to have the same history or tradition as the big 3.
That being said, it doesn’t mean they can’t come into their own in their own way. Fans just can’t expect to get the respect as the other big 3 if only because history is not on their side.
They have enough talent surrounding them, and Skip Holtz should be able to win the Big East, and that’s as good a starting point as any. But USF’s greatest advantage is also it’s greatest weakness. Geography. They’re in one of the richest talent pools in the country, but also in an area that’s so saturated with pre-established fans of the big 3 that it’s going to hurt USF. A Florida fan might root for USF when UF isn’t playing, but they’re not going to go out and buy USF merch and switch allegiances anytime soon, either. The Big East is kind of unique as in they’re looking for any means into major media markets by taking mid-majors like Houston, SDSU SMU, etc, whereas the heavyweight conferences aren’t going to take a mid-major just for it’s market. (Then again, the Big XII took us, with little media market to speak of, so there’s aaaaalways hope lol)
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 3, 2012 6:25 AM EST up reply actions
I would like...
…however, I see USF win the BCS bid before AQ goes away. (You know, as long as WVU isn’t there anymore. haha)
Maybe I’m a homer (I’m definitely a homer) but I’ve always thought that WVU was the only team in the Big East able of competing in a BCS bowl. (Louisville won the Orange, against Wake Forest, and that team was one of the best the Big East has seen, but then they got Kraggy and that was lost. But with Strong it could come back.) ButI would be very interesting in seeing USF take on a BCS caliber team with the big stakes of a BCS bowl. They seem to compete well as long as it’s out of conference. lol
"that place laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Feb 3, 2012 6:28 AM EST up reply actions
USF struggles in the conference
Partially because of cold weather. The Buccaneers were the most talented NFC Central team in the last few years of the division’s existence. They regularly won at home, especially when the temperatures were warm-but lost to the less talented Packers and Bears in those late season very cold road games.
In comparison: With conference play starting in October, I think USF loses the advantage of the early season heat, while keeping the cold road games.
Also, I don’t expect USF to be perceived well among the Big 3 anytime soon-if ever. But, something doesn’t seem right about a distant private school in deep southeast FL and two north Florida schools-one even in the panhandle-having central Florida forever reserved for them, to the detriment of the local schools in larger media markets.
I know college football isn’t the NFL, but with the race for tv exposure and marketing, local population size should actually mean something. The Big 3 status quo in privilege is as outdated as the Pork Chop Gang’s gerrymandering was-which likewise ignored the population growth of Florida’s other regions.
by Green Bull on Feb 3, 2012 9:55 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Also,
Memphis would be a compromise to the the ‘hybrid’ together-making the basketball schools happy with a competitive team; and the other members-with them-would like their market. In exchange, th basketball schools might break from Villanova to maintain a healthy relationship (compromising is ‘give and take’) and the following reasons:
1. USF lead by example by bringing in a close rival for the good of the whole group. The basketball schools do not have to worry about Temple being to close to them; so it doesn’t hurt them. A relative parallel would have been the football members blocking UCF and that obviously did not happen. So it is only really Villanova’s problem.
2. Temple would bring back a share of the Pennsylvania market with football recruits and televisions (for football) in the fifth most populous American city (Philadelphia)-which happens to be in a very significant state.
3. And, if the Big East is considering a contract with Comcast, it wouldn’t hurt to have an all-sports member in its home city.
4. Temple is competitive in basketball, as well as football.
If it provides more money for the conference, I don’t see how anybody other than maybe Villanova gets angry with such an addition.
by Green Bull on Feb 1, 2012 10:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Notre Dame isn't giving up football independence for any non-football sport
It’s Touchdown Jesus, not Nothing-But-Net Jesus or Women’s Field Hockey Jesus.
ACC is probably Notre DAme’s first choice of football conferences, but they would only go if
1. An independent Notre Dame is locked out of the national championship game.
Say the power conferences blow up the BCS and go to an “unseeded plus-one,” and the major bowls replace at-large bids with SEC or Big 10 contracts. (Sugar SEC 1 vs B10 2, Fiesta B12 1 vs SEC 2/3, Orange ACC 1 vs SEC 2/3).
2. 9- or 10- game conference schedules mean that Notre Dame can’t play schools like USC, Stanford, Michigan, Michigan State, etc. I could even see ND replacing Big 10 schools with non-Big 10 national powers, if they had to. I think for Notre Dame, USC is the only irreplaceable school (besides Navy.)
While the hybrid Big East is ideal for Notre Dame, if there’s a split, Notre Dame is stuck in the CYO League, like it or not. Where are they going to go? None of the top football leagues want Notre Dame basketball badly enough to put up with the headaches of being a hybrid conference.
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