Villanova Football Recruit Says Coaches Told Him Villanova Will Announce FBS Move in September
by Mengus22 on Jul 7, 2011 10:50 AM EDT
in Big East Expansion
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I don't normally read the ESPN Insider stuff that is posted about recruits, but, when this link was forwarded to me on this story on Villanova commitment Stacy Bedell, I took a look. It's no surprise that Villanova was able to land the kid's commitment, but what was surprising was his reason for choosing Villanova.
Bedell committed to Villanova -- a program that won the 2010 FCS national championship -- last Friday, one day after Villanova made its offer. He said Villanova's possible move to the FBS level was a big factor in his decision. He was also considering Army, James Madison, Fordham and Stony Brook.
"It's a great academic school and they told me they're announcing in September that they're going [FBS]," Bedell said. "I wanted to prove to everyone that I can play at that level."
Do coaches tell recruits just about anything to get a commitment? Yes. Have we heard precisely the same language from Temple recruits? Yes. Obviously this has to be taken with a grain of salt. Still, to hear it with regards to Villanova, a school that at least at one time had a Big East invitation for football seems much more certain than something from a Temple recruit.
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Makes the most sense financially and they aren't as far off talent wise as some think.
From what we’ve heard from Nova, the financial commitment is there. Just have to convince WVU, Pitt, and Rutgers about PPL
Voodoo Five
The Toughest Blog in America
by Ken DeCelles on Jul 7, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
What convincing is that?
Even expanded, PPL park is too small, and off-campus. Big East doesn’t need another financial boat-anchor.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Jul 7, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the Rent too small and off-campus for your liking as well?
Nova has shown that they will put the proper resources into every sport. I doubt football would be any different.
Voodoo Five
The Toughest Blog in America
I will just say that Rentschler Field is 40,000 seats, and was built with some nebulous future expansion past 50K in mind (you know, once we find Football Jim Calhoun and start winning all the championships). It’s also located in an airfield surrounded by acres of grass that can accommodate extra parking, etc.
Doubling PPL Park’s size would still leave it short of the Rent’s current capacity, though I’m not sure there’s even enough room to increase capacity by that much, given that it’s right on the Delaware.
Thoroughly enjoying life atop the Big East.
by Kevin Meacham on Jul 7, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm opposed to it
But while I think that Nova isn’t the best option, I doubt any of the basketball schools are going to agree to another full member. Now if the 10th school was going to be a football only school, I’m going with the other Philly school.
Cardiac Hill contributor
The basketball schools are basically subsidizing football
by allowing TCU to become a full member. Its a little more complex than that, but TCU will get a share of the basketball money, basically picking the pockets of the other schools who share those revenues.
They didn’t have a whole lot of choice in the matter — they couldn’t say no and leave the football schools hanging and risk the internal malaise that might cause. They also likely hope that TCU basketball with a Big East sticker slapped on it, can grow in prominence and become a decently attractive property in the Dallas market so that it will eventually carry it’s own weight.
Villanova football is like TCU basketball in that regard. If Nova can grow the program, recruit under the Big East banner and win a few games, there has to be some hope that they can become an decently attractive property in another large media market.
The two immediate assets that Villanova offers are; (1) a brand name that will presumably carry over from basketball and (2) existing rivalries with Big East members in other sports (No contrived “land grant” trophies needed).
No land grant trophies?
We might have a problem then.
Villanova football is like TCU basketball in that regard. If Nova can grow the program, recruit under the Big East banner and win a few games, there has to be some hope that they can become an decently attractive property in another large media market
While that may be true, moving from the Mountain West to the Big East in basketball is much easier than going from the CAA to the Big East in football, obviously. And it would be years before the Big East would see any of those benefits. Can the Big East wait that long?
Cardiac Hill contributor
In terms of the quality of play, etc.
The CAA is closer to C-USA than people give it credit for. Sagarin rates the conference higher than the Sun Belt in most years, and higher than the MAC lately as well.
In fact, CAA schools tend to get into recruiting battles (and win them) against MAC schools all the time. The main difference between CAA football and a low-level FBS league is the number of scholarships (in other words: depth).
You’re right that it’s a process to get there, but it really isn’t an insurmountable task at all. Most of the “growing pains” are likely to come during the transition years, while the school builds up it’s scholarship count (you’d do it in phases to avoid having a 40-man graduating class every 4 years), and works to bring in more high-level recruits.
Nova has been a power in FCS for a little while now. It isn’t like the cupboard is bare. We are talking about one of the top programs in the best FCS conference that has a freshman class that is probably the best group of recruits assembled at any FCS school (and that’s without the linebacker commit who is heading to prep school).
Anyway, long-story-short: Can Villanova move up and win some games and build up some buzz in Philadelphia? If the administration/boosters invest in the program the way they should, they can and they can do so without being a long-term doormat as well.
With Plancher/Caldwell
I think they are past the point of no return at this point.
Voodoo Five
The Toughest Blog in America
Why not UCF?
Only a non-BCS football fan would scoff at UCF.
UCF averaged 39,000 FB fans last year and has a student population of nearly 60,000. They would also give the BE a second college in the talent-rich state of Florida that would aid recruiting and bring in college FB markets of Orlando to go along with Tampa.
UCF is a no brainer. Saying no to Nova is also a no brainer. Nova brings nothing to the table that uplifts BE football. Absolutely nothing. I guess Nova’s 9,000 FB and BB fans are all mad at me now. BTW, I’m a Syracuse fan, we also averaged 39,000 fans last year.
Where is NOVA going to find 30,000 more FB fans in three years- or even in ten years? Basketball greatness is easier to achieve- just look at Butler or VCU.
If we’re talking FB- UCF is a better choice than NOVA.
Isnt PPL with renovations still only 30,000?
They need a larger stadium and then that’s fine. The problem with Villanova is that they’re not eligible to join the Big East until 2014 or something anyways. Didn’t the Big East also say they wanted a decision by April? I dont see the Big East waiting around til September for Villanova. I dont care if they join but how long do you need to decide? They should have given their answer months ago. The Big East is waiting to make any moves until they know about Nova, so I just want this decision to be made asap.
Yeah
At 30,000 it’s not much smaller than Wake Forest, Duke, or Washington State’s stadium. I think it’s good enough.
Aspiring to those programs
Is like wanting to be the tallest midget at the circus. Or serve great airline food.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Jul 8, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not like Houston and UCF (or any others of the usual suspects) are going anywhere
And I think the BE probably wants all the t’s crossed and i’s dotted on ’Nova’s plans to move to FBS before approving them as a football member.
If they’re playing in PPL (which seems certain), what is the expansion timetable and who is paying for it? They can play games as a transitional FBS team in an 18,000 seat stadium, but 30K had better be there, if not by the first season of Big East play, then within two years. Are they commited to having FBS-level facilities for football?
If all of that’s the case (and I’d like them to have a deal to play at least one game a year at a larger stadium; if a football field can work at Citizen’s Bank, that’s probably the best idea since no one is using it in November or December and they’d have all winter to patch up the field for baseball season), then I’m fine with them moving up. Though I think my plan would be to add Houston in 2013 and a 12th football member to be determined (basically putting every eastern non-AQ and possibly any jumpy ACC or Texas 10 schools on notice that we will be adding someone and it can be them) along with ’Nova in 2015 or 2016 (the ship has sailed on 2014).
And then split, because as much as I’d miss the Georgetown rivalry as a conferene game (I haven’t been an Orange fan long enough to have any deep rivalry feelings for St. John’s or Providence or Seton Hall), 12/19 is pretty unworkable.
Just say no NOVA
PPL is only part of the problem. Nova fans think playing in one of the smallest stadiums in the BCS solves the problem but Nova has roughly 10,000 students and is private. I doubt Nova can fill a 20,000 seat stadium, much least a 30,000 seat stadium.
Temple has about 40,000 students, is public and last year averaged 20,000 FB fans. Other candidates like UCF averaged 39,000 fans.
Nova is only in the discussion because they are already in the Big East. But clearly, no one wants to see this joke of FB college go BCS. It would be a laughing stock.
This is very simple...
All the problems are easily addressed. PPL Park has said they are willing to expand to 30K if Nova signs, which can easily be done within the time frame that is set. As we bash Nova for not having a larger stadium, NOBODY says anything about Cincis 35K seat stadium…its 5K seats…Really?
In 2017, Lincoln Financial field will be looking to either renew Temples contract or possibly lease to another team. Temple loses $4 million a year on football and Nova will be making at least $11 million from the BE contract.
If Nova joins the Big East in 2014, then they play in PPL Park for 4 seasons, then takes over the Linc, which is much larger and much closer to Nova. Its a steady progression and would be the third BE team to play in a pro stadium.
Also, Temple only has rights to Saturday games for the Linc. If there is a large game scheduled that would exceed PPL parks 30K (like maybe a West Virginia game or others) then it can be scheduled on a Wed, Thurs or Fri and Temple could not block it.
Nova is a conference brethern and deserves a shot before CDOA…. and before anybody again tries to support UCF…do we do not take schools that cheat and kill students athletes. Why would we add the number 17 DMA who isnt already a member, when we can get the number 4 DMA and not increase the number of basketball teams we pay?
NOBODY says anything about Cincis 35K seat stadium…its 5K seats…Really?
Nova will start at 18k and transition to 30k
Cincy entered the conference at 35k and is transitioning to bigger. so right now, yeah the stadium is over 5k bigger than Nova could hope for, its also its on campus, and its still too small for Big East football. the school is trying everything they can to expand but its very landlocked. they also have the option of moving to Paul Brown Stadium and began doing just that last season against Oklahoma and this year against louisville and WVU and if they cant expand Nippert Stadium they will move all games to PBS in a few years.
ultimately i would support nova in the Big East football. uconn showed the transition can be mave very quickly. 30k is very small and if the fanbase isnt there right away theres no reason the visiting Big East school shouldnt be able to bring enough fans to at least fill most the seats.
The Big Issue with UCF or Houston or ECU or Anyone Else
Is that Brett McMurphy has already shown that the media contract is not helped in the least by adding any of the C-USA schools and that’s all that expansion is concerned with.
Not exactly...
He did say that the contract is helped by getting to 10 teams one way or another. That could conceivably include a CUSA import.
In my very un-humble opinion, the important questions right now are:
1) How much per-school will the Big East get with Villanova vs. others (if it is more, close or the same with Nova, you have to pick Nova)?
2) How much more can they add to those rights by expanding to 12 football schools?
3) How much money does additional all-sports expansion take away from the basketball revenue per-school?
4) What effect does stadium size have, other than public perception? If it is image-only (no financial impact), then there is little difference between 30k and 40k seats on TV.
Size only matters
Stadium size only matters as a measure of fan support. Notre Dame can draw 80,000 whereever they go. Even if you put Nova in Lincoln, I think they are too small and too elite a school to ever draw more than 20,000. Temple is four times the size of Nova with a much larger alumni base in Philly. Nova is even below average in Big East basketball attendance so to think they will fill 30,000 seats for football is a stretch. And, if there is no fan support in the stadium, there’s no fan support on the television.
College FB is just not big in Philly.
It is big in Orlando and that is why UCF is the better option. People will come out to see the games and people will watch the away games on TV because they are fans. NOVA is a small private northeastern basketball school. Like one blogger mentioned, they want the $11 million in BE football dollars and they are looking for the cheapest way to get it. But they bring nothing to the Big East but the smallest stadium, the smallest school, the smallest fan base and the smallest TV audience- based on these other factors.
UCF brings a FB culture to the BE. In Florida, college football rules the state. Florida is college football crazy and it is the top state for college fooball recruits- which helps every big east team.
Also, UCF finished last season ranked 20th in the nation.
Nova, UCF is like apples and oranges. You can’t compare the two.
Are you joking?
Nova is even below average in Big East basketball attendance so to think they will fill 30,000 seats for football is a stretch.
Nova’s attendance is artificially low because of all those SELL OUT crowds at the Pavilion that still max out at 6,500. When they play at the Wells Fargo Center, the crowds are always above-average and more often than not they draw more fans than the 76ers. Even a horribly-scheduled early-season WFC game against Delaware last year drew more than twice as many fans as Nova normally crams into the Pavilion for those OOC blow-out games.
It is just silly to suggest that Villanova’s basketball support is weak.
College football is all about the size of the fanbase
And UCF has a better fanbase right now than ‘Nova can realistically hope for in the future. It’s a huge school with a new 42K on-campus stadium, in a football crazed state.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Jul 8, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Only if total insanity strikes Big East Inter-Gallactic HQ
McMurphy is a total idiot, carrying a torch for Army & Navy. Army was a disaster in C-USA, and Navy brings nothing to the table that can’t be done better by some other school.
Please, enough of this Army & Navy to the Big East crap.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Jul 8, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's just limit football expansion...
..exclusively to programs who’ve earned it. After years of toiling in the non-AQ wilderness and not getting our due, I’d hate to see TCU just join the BE alongside some dross like UCF.
List of non-AQ programs who’ve earned an invite from the big leagues: Utah, TCU, Boise.
List of those who haven’t: everyone else.
The thing is that although Louisville would have been on your list in 2005
Cinci, USF, and UConn would not. And two of the three have won the conference since then.
Your list is out of date, too
Utah is in the PAC-12 now.
West Virginia fans hate everybody. They remember every snub and joke and bit of snark. And they never forgive, and they never, ever forget. In other words, they're a lot like West Virginians in general.
by Kid Tenderloin on Jul 9, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
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