Expansion Update: Big East Officials Meet with Air Force & Boise, Houston & UCF Have Board Meetings Scheduled
by Patrick_the_Ruminator on Oct 27, 2011 1:20 PM EDT
in Big East Expansion
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So now that you know politicians are lobbying the Big XII for both Louisville and West Virginia, what's happening with the Big East's expansion?
There are lots of moving parts right now. Do you think the Big East will lose Louisville, West Virginia or both before they can add any of their expansion targets?
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Kiss em both goodbye unless....
There is a new rumor out there that Notre Dame and the Big XII are in negotiations to have the Irish move their non-football sports into the conference, allow them to remain independent in football, BUT agree to play as many as six games per year against Big XII teams, while also agreeing that, if it joins a conference, the Big XII would be it. I don’t know how much sense that makes, but if the Big XII had ND playing six games per year against programs in their conference, it would essentially be like having them in the conference anyway. But, if that happens, then I could see the Big XII just replacing Missouri with WVU or Louisville and waiting to expand further. If that falls through, however, I have to believe the Big XII will simply take WVU, Louisville, and one more team to get back to 12.
The Big 12 is just desperate enough to agree to that
No other major conference will allow Notre Dame in without going ALL in. Although I’d point out that the inequities in schools helped chase out Colorado, Nebraska, Missouri, and Texas A&M. And it helped take down the Big East too. However, at this stage no one left in the Big 12 has any better options (outisde OU and Texas) so maybe it holds.
Still, can’t see this thing going through.
Agreed....but
The one thing I can say is, if you’re the Big XII and you believe the winds are pushing ND towards a conference anyway, you might decide to just let them hang onto their independency for a while, if they agree to play those six or so games in your conference. As I said, that would essentially make them a conference member, except for the sticky problem of having to share some of that coveted money. But, like you said, if you’re not Texas or OU, you might be at the point where you don’t care, and would just like a chance to play a home and home with the Irish anyway.
I always hated the idea that ND got to essentially store their non-football sports in the BE and give the conference a big middle finger when it comes to sharing the wealth, but maybe the Big XII figures ND will have to join a conference eventually and, until it happens, why not reap some of the benefits?
However, that being said, I think the more likely scenario is ND doesn’t move there and the Big XII steals two more BE schools (Louisville and WVU) throwing this already shaky expansion plan on the part of the Big East into even more disarray.
Who knows???
It’s possible that both will go though I am not convinced that either will go at this point. The logical stand point would be to take both schools and add BYU or some other school to go to 12. However Texas and Oklahoma are against going to 12 because they do not want a playoff. So unless that changes only one school gets the nod. And like the last few news statements have indicated it is a 50/50 shot for both. My thought is that maybe neither school gets the nod because this is a hot mess and lines are being drawn with Texas wanting WVU and Oklahoma/Oklahoma State wanting Louisville (or another school). Also T Boone Pickens is not sold on WVU and someone will need to get him to guy in if you are going to win over the state of Oklahoma. So I don’t see a compromise any time soon. So the Big 12 might be better off going to a school like BYU to get the nod. Even with all the issue about not playing on Sunday someone in the Big 12 must be asking if all of this angst over these two BE teams are worth it?
Furthermore I just saw that the President of Missouri is getting ready to leave the country for a 10 day trip to India after this weekend. If that is the case it could be mid-November before we even know what Missouri wants to do. That could impact either BE school in several ways. If the invite is still contingent on Missouri’s decision to stay or go these two schools could be waiting for a while. That means that 27 month time period will not start until these BE schools get an invite and accept. Also, remember that $10 million exit fee that is contingent on the execution of the expansion plan? Well it looks like things are starting to move a bit. UCF and Houston are looking to get the nod to explore new conference affiliation. Boise State has made inquiries about moving its Olympic sports to another conference (a sign they are ready to move). And Air Force has publically stated they are looking over the BE proposal. Once one of these schools accept an invitation (maybe Tuesday they will go out), the $5 million goes to $10. In the span of a week WVU could have lost an additional $5 million in income! Bummer man.
The ironic thing is that WVU and Louisville are looking to both bolt the BE because it’s unstable. However the Big 12 is looking like it is no bed of roses either. Texas and the Oklahoma twins are fighting over the 10th team, Missouri can’t make up its mind, and now there are grumblings over the plan for a new TV deal in terms of revenue sharing? Remember this WVU/Louisville the grass in not always greener. The BE is a hot mess but it looks like some positives are going to happen. You would be better off staying in the BE and making it work and work toward getting a better TV deal. As it stands it looks like some moves are starting to be made. Finally!
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 4:20 PM EDT reply actions
Adding Houston, etc
can’t really be considered “positive” things long term. Pretty much every one in the media and every where else agrees the Big East is dead, probably sooner than later. Especially with this walk of a 32 frankenstein conference.
The Big XII, however, is actually the strongest conference right now in terms of stats and teams ranked. Is it unstable? Yes, it is, and unfortunatley the with Texas wanting to be boss it will always be somewhat of a battle. But while the Big XII may be rocking on the waves, it’s a long shot from sinking like the Big East is.
Whether Mizzou leaves or not the Big XII will survive again. If they leave, they’ll add Louisville/West Virginia to get back to 10, or potentially both and Cincinnati/BYU to get to 12. If they stay, sooner or later they’re going to back to 12, and WVU and Louisville will again be among the first school’s mentioned.
Texas may be the problem, but any conference with them and Oklahoma will survive. Not to mention strong programs with Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and Kansas State. All good programs. Baylor has the potential, Kansas DID go to a BCS bowl and win at least.
The Big XII will survive, even if it’s not a smoothe ride. The Big East will not in its present state.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
Under your logic Baylor has potential but Houston does not? Logic at its finest. But again I expect that from you because you are sooooo desperate to see WVU get into the Big 12. And for what? To be the University of Texas lapdog? Every year Texas or Oklahoma wins the Big 12. WVU will be a mid level program that will go to a bowl, but not a major bowl.
Besides you have your WVU blinders on so much that your fail to notice that multiple teams have or will look to leave the Big 12? You guys are like the football equivalent of a chick who dates a known womanizer. For some reason they think they can make them an honest man and it never works. The same will happen to WVU or Louisville.
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like your team is going to be screwed over no matter what happens
Going to the Big 12 for both schools is just merely a place to stay until the SEC expands to 16. I would rather be in a conference that has respect, than be in one that is run by basketball has beens. Besides Villanova, Georgetown, and Marquette, all the rest of the basketball schools should have been kicked out and we might still have the Big East in tact. I love the Big East, but what is left of it is not the Big East of old, so I could care less at this point.
That's exactly
why he’s being so pissy. He would rather win in a shitty conference than compete in a respectable one.
Though I’m still not sure USF would win in the shitty one, so I dunno. I would much rather go to the Cotton Bowl than motherlucking Belk Bowl.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
The one thing that the Big XII has that the Big East doesn't....
Is Texas (and to a lesser extent, OU). The BE doesn’t have any major program like that, so as long as Texas wants to stay in the Big XII and keep all that Longhorn Network money to itself, the Big XII will be much more stable than the Big East, despite all the snipping taking place in that conference. You are right about the Texas, OU influence on 10 teams and not having a playoff. That might keep them from going to 12. However, I don’t think all this back and forth is going to affect the Big XII from taking WVU or Louisville. Remember, the problem with BYU isn’t so much the “won’t play on Sunday” stuff, it is more about the fact that they have their own network. Now, the Big XII members have begrudgingly agreed to stay (somewhat) quiet about Texas having the Longhorn Network deal, but that’s only because, without Texas there is no conference. It’s hard to imagine they would invite BYU in when they have a similar deal and have shown no signs of wanting to let it go. The BE might actually be a more plausible landing spot for BYU (although I still highly doubt it) only because it is in no condition to tell BYU it has to share regional network revenues. That’s why, ultimately, I think WVU or Louisville will leave (and I am still leaning towards both eventually going).
Your right
I think when it is all said and done another school will join. However, this is a sign that things are still bad in the Big 12. The Big 12 is equally a dysfunctional family. They have managed to keep up appearances in order to get TCU in, hich was a no brainier. But now the fight comes out when the 10th program is ready to be picked!
Wait can we say deja vu? Did the BE not go through the same, less public situation? WVU and Louisville should do their research before jumping ship.
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The funny part of all of this is how little it has to do with the games...
I mean, think about it……Missouri (not that they are any good now) becomes an even bigger afterthought when it goes to the SEC, where it becomes a mid-level (at best) football school. West Virginia? Please, with all due respect to the Mountaineers, WVU becomes an afterthought in a conference with Texas and Oklahoma, and retains its place as a mid-level basketball program behind Kansas, Texas, and (probably) Kansas State. Louisville? Same thing (although much better in basketball). I mean, all these schools are scrambling to chase the all mighty dollar, and I understand that, but why would any fan of any of these schools want this to happen? If you’re a fan of WVU or Missouri (or even Louisville) can you honestly be excited at the prospect of simply being a perpetual “also ran” because you know your university is getting a few more bucks? All of this conference realignment is honestly sickening, in every way imaginable. And we’re suppose to get upset and angry when a kid takes a few grand from a booster?
I'm not quite sure WVU and Louisville will be also-rans in the Big XII basketball
at worst they are in the Top 5 in the conference immediately.
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by TheMattROb on Oct 27, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
But this is about football!
Basketball is inconsequential to WVU or Louisville in this decision. If it was they would stay in the BE!
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Louisville
has the highest grossing basketball program in the nation. The only basketball program in the top 25 total athletic programs.
The Big East lost two of it’s best basketball programs in ’Cuse and Pitt, and UConn is looking to jump ship.
A Big XII basketball conference with Texas, Oklahoma, Louisville, West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State would be as good as whatever is left of the Big East. Villanova, Georgetown, etc.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That is what it is...
I don’t care too much about basketball to begin with. Honestly there are great B-Ball programs who are not affiliated with a major AQ conference. So if the BE wanted to snap up a few basketball schools within the new footprint to make up for the loss they could.
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I have said this for a while
But if you look through the prior WVU articles with comments you will see that many of the WVU fans are convinced in a few years they will be able to take Texas and Oklahoma to the woodshed. The reality is much different. I think in the last ten years either Oklahoma or Texas competed for the Big 12 championship and won almost every time. I think Kansas State and Missouri competed a few times and caused some issues. The moral is the Big 12 is a very top heavy conference Where Oklahoma and Texas rules and the other schools drool!
Great points !
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
and the Big East
is a very bottom heavy conference. There is no perfect solution, only the lesser fo 2 evils.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
If it is so bottom heavy
The addition of Boise and Houston will help. Also WVU should win every year! But it cannot so that is a problem just like it is for the Bulls. The conference is there for the taking. Just do it! :-)
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, when bottom heavy
there is always a better chance to move up. When top heavy not so much.
Bottom heavy and top heavy are only good for one thing. Wink Wink ;-)
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Houston might come
but how competetive will they remain once Keenum is gone? They’ll go the way most CUSA schools seem to go until they finally find a new playmaker. Houston is a great team, don’t get me wrong, but they wouldn’t survive the way they do in the CUSA in any other conference. Even the Big East might be a tad rough on them.
I’ll believe Boise State is coming to the Big East when I see the press conference. If West Virginia OR Louisville leaves, let alone both, I think they’d rather take their chances in the Mountain West. Besides, if they make the BCS this year, and they should, their exist fee is ENORMOUS. BSU is not an overly wealthy program. I don’t see it being worth it to them.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 7:10 PM EDT reply actions
Damn
Reply fail. Curse you governemnt computers.
"that place (West Virginia) laid the foundation for who I am. A lot of outsiders make fun of it and say negative things about West Virginia. Fuck them" - Jerry West
by MountaineerAirman on Oct 27, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You can say that for a lot of schools...
You can play what ifs till the end of the world. Success comes down to the money put into a universities athletic system irrespective of the coach. The reason why some schools in the BE fail to succeed is because they fail to put money into their programs. Most of this is due to the poor TV contract the BE currently has. An extra 10-15 million per school can go a long way in hiring and retaining a coach. Besides nothing can stop any coach from bolting to their dream job. The college does not matter.
As for the new schools coming in I agree. I am not going to celebrate a school coming into the BE until I see the commish behind a podium with a tie in the schools colors. I felt that many of your WVU brethren should have used the same caution when they thought they were going into the Big 12. Now there are a lot of hurt feelings.
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
While this gets said about a lot of schools that people want to write off...
I think it accurately describes Houston. They are a school that lack community attention, plays in a run down stadium (plans for a new one, but not sure they even have the funding for it yet, they announced it a week after TCU announced their’s, but TCU’s already half built), and overall lack the financial support from the university.
I’m quite familiar with Houston being a TCU fan that’s played them back in the CUSA days. They’ll put together a decent season every now and then, but largely they’re going to be a mediocre team without Keenum just like they were prior to Keenum (when was that again, like 2001? I think TCU has now been in 3 conferences after we last played Keenum in CUSA). Sure Houston is in a giant market, but they don’t do anything to somewhat carry the market. Their school doesn’t want to invest anything in the athletics and it shows. They’re good because of Case Keenum. What’d they do last year when Case Keenum was hurt? Not very much and that’s what I’d expect next year whether they’re in CUSA or Big East, or the Eastern Mountain USA Conference.
Ron Washington...giving hope everywhere to the kids who eat lead paint chips of being a big league manager when they grow up since 2007.
Houston Clears the was to the Big East
Looks like the Board of Regents of Houston has give the all clear to go forward with joining the Big East. Now all we need to see is the Big East close a deal. After that it looks like UCF is up to vote next. So it looks like whoever leaves the conference will be paying $10 million and not $5.
by Vinnie Giordano on Oct 27, 2011 9:46 PM EDT reply actions
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